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I think also there may be some split ber on a few poel too and not just because someone is clumsy. But back to the topic of the Flexs. Does anyone know what route will be nxt to have them. I know it's been said 514 will be completed followed by 509 and 511 next year but which route will be next? 505 perhaps as they have said King is along route and they want to have a lot of cars they can put out on it Queen alos is in the same boat as they both are the two longest routes in the city.

The original schedule had 511 being next, followed by 505, then I believe 504/501. I don't recall if the schedule was simply changed to be "insert 514 before 511" or if it's been completely redone. There's certainly not much point in the TTC talking about it since 514 and 509 are a while off from being done...and if 511 is still next then it'll be quite a while indeed before we have to worry about what follows.

Personally, I think 504 should be moved up, to some extent, since 514 has the LFLRVs, to make the experience along King St more uniform. I'd like to see 509/514>511 (previously announced, some SRVMs installed, shares portion of route with 509, summer CNE demand, smaller route/fewer cars than 504)>504>original schedule (I think 505>501/2/3/8 if they exist>512>506).
 
Isn't there a contract issue around MTBF? Latest CEO report does not show LFLRV reliability running at under 5000 km which is better than CLRV but nowhere near the 35000 they are supposed to make.
 
Frankly, I would rather poke needles into my eyes! We have 'regulars' who assume BBD will never meet a target, regulars who think they are much maligned and it's all the TTCs fault and those who obsess about the arrival of every Flexity and worry if it sits at the Barns longer than average or why it is on the 514 rather than the 509. An evening listening to this (at least without a great deal of beer) would be ghastly. :->

We aren't here to meet beer buddies.

If you dislike this conversation so much, the solution is simple: don't read this thread. Its title after all is "TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)" and that is exactly what we are talking about.
 
Isn't there a contract issue around MTBF? Latest CEO report does not show LFLRV reliability running at under 5000 km which is better than CLRV but nowhere near the 35000 they are supposed to make.
TTC will not know until the 40-50 cars are in service what the real number is for failure is.

The MDBF decreased in July to 4,669 kilometres compare to the 35,000 they are supposed to be at. It was just over 5,000 in the last report or 2.

If the failure is not close to the 35,000 by the time the 60th is in service and stand to be corrected, the hold button is to be hit. It is to remain that way until the cars can meet the 35,000 requirement. Depending on the length of the hold, 2019 could be miss.

Since the 6oth car is to be the last car to come with pole and jump start to order another 60, don't expect to see an order place until either 2018 or 19, depending what the mayor does to TTC budget for those years. Wouldn't be order in 2017. Then TTC could wait until the current order is complete to see what it has cost them for all the delay and cost inure by the delay. The best TTC can get in way of free cars to cover the extra cost is about 10-12, leaving 48-50 cars to be bought.

I'm not a beer drinker, but doesn't stop me from going out.
 
If the failure is not close to the 35,000 by the time the 60th is in service and stand to be corrected, the hold button is to be hit. It is to remain that way until the cars can meet the 35,000 requirement.

That is my understanding of the structure of the contract as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
For the layman, what's happening here? The Outlooks are failing at 5000km? And somewhat o/t, but do streetcars have odometers? If so what's the highest distance traveled by an individual A/CLRV?
 
For the layman, what's happening here? The Outlooks are failing at 5000km?

What it means is that the average distance that any single car is likely to travel between any failures that requires that car being removed from service is about 5,000km. Some may fail at 2,500km and some at 7,500km, but the running average of the entire fleet gets you to that number.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
What it means is that the average distance that any single car is likely to travel between any failures that requires that car being removed from service is about 5,000km. Some may fail at 2,500km and some at 7,500km, but the running average of the entire fleet gets you to that number.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

also what's the definition of a failure? Like for example if one car has a problem with its doors and goes out of service for the day but is back in service the next day is it a failure?
 
Is that a fixed number or can it lower if the network is ready for pans?
That was set at contract.

Since this order is so late, it possible that TTC could reduce the numbers, depending where they are at the end of the year for the overhead replacement. At the rate things are going, 4459 will not be here until June 2017.

If TTC has 30 here by year end and King & Queen as well the yards overhead are done, TTC has enough cars to be use on lines where the OC is not complete. 509, 510, 511 is complete and most of 514 at this time. TTC was shooting for the summer this year for pans for 509 & 510, but push it back to year end, even though both routes are 100% ready. Its King and Queen as well the east side of Roncesvalles yard holding things up.

TTC could start with 4430 coming with pans only, but up to TTC on that. TTC would be saving the cost of installing the poles, as the poles have been order and should be in TB now.

The plan I knew year ago had the cars with pole being phase in on lines where the OC wasn't done to the point they were all on every lines as either 2-4th car until the system was fully done.

Wouldn't be surprise to see a change in routes getting cars starting in 2017.
 
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also what's the definition of a failure? Like for example if one car has a problem with its doors and goes out of service for the day but is back in service the next day is it a failure?

Read my post again - "...any failures that requires that car being removed from service...". The car could re-enter service the same day, but it's still had a failure that needed to be corrected.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Read my post again - "...any failures that requires that car being removed from service...". The car could re-enter service the same day, but it's still had a failure that needed to be corrected..

It may not even get a repair; maintenance may just tell the driver "don't do that, it's not supposed to work that way".
 
It may not even get a repair; maintenance may just tell the driver "don't do that, it's not supposed to work that way".

They would do that without removing the car from service. Hell, even a door fault or failure won't require the car to be removed from service - and there are a bunch of other subsystems that allow for this as well.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Ontario shows willingness to replace Bombardier on Toronto transit project
Oliver Moore - URBAN TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

TORONTO — The Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, Sep. 28, 2016 6:00AM EDT

In the clearest sign yet that Ontario is losing patience with Bombardier, the government has privately signalled it is open to commissioning vehicles from other companies for a key Toronto transit project.

The Quebec-based company is contracted to provide 182 vehicles to Metrolinx for light-rail lines in Toronto. But Bombardier has struggled with persistent delays in producing a prototype for testing, and the government is showing new willingness to look elsewhere for part of the order.

According to industry and government sources, the three consortia competing to build an LRT along Finch Avenue West were recently offered the option of including vehicle procurement as part of their bids. This is a blow to Bombardier – whose Metrolinx order was to include about two dozen vehicles – and could let other manufacturers get a foothold in the Toronto area.

Although it is not clear how easily Metrolinx could change the contract with Bombardier, other companies that are already building light-rail vehicles for the Canadian market expressed strong interest in the possibility of joining one of the three consortia competing for the project bid.

Related: Bombardier delays to TTC streetcars could hold up Metrolinx light rail

Related: TTC to sue Bombardier over late streetcars

“We’ll be aggressive and very active on it,” Patrick O’Neill, head of Siemens mobility division in Canada, said in a telephone interview from Germany.

“We would certainly like to break into the market in Eastern Canada. We do have market share in Alberta, but we’d certainly like to see some of that in Toronto and Ontario as well.”

A spokesman for Bombardier suggested the company would refuse to give up any part of its order.

“Bombardier signed a contract in June 2010 to supply 182 [light-rail] vehicles to Metrolinx,” Marc-André Lefebvre said in an e-mailed statement. “And so, we will manufacture and deliver 182 vehicles to Metrolinx, as per our contractual obligations.”

The Finch light-rail line is to run 11 kilometres from a future station on the Spadina subway extension to Humber College. Construction is due to start next year, and the line is scheduled to be operational by 2021.

The deadline by which the three competing consortia must submit their bids was quietly extended recently from October to February. Sources said this was partly to give the competing companies the option of adding a company that produces vehicles to their bids.

Robert Pattison, senior vice-president for light-rail transit at Infrastructure Ontario, said the extension was primarily about making sure the bidders have time to gather information needed to compile their proposals. He referred questions about vehicles for the line to Metrolinx, which would not make anyone available for an interview.

“We continue to explore all options,” Metrolinx spokeswoman Anne Marie Aikins said in an e-mail. “No decisions have been made at this time.”

It is not clear whether the deadline extension would give the consortia enough time to add vehicle procurement to their proposals. Bombardier could still be chosen, but other companies are keen to get a piece of the action.

“If the market does open to other vehicle vendors we clearly want to participate in the tendering and procurement process,” Angelo Guercioni, country managing director for Alstom, said from Montreal. “If these opportunities do open up, Alstom will be gladly participating in that process.”

Bombardier’s reputation as a vehicle manufacturer has been undermined in recent years. It has struggled to build reliable streetcars for the Toronto Transit Commission, has repeatedly adjusted its delivery schedule and has missed several deadlines to complete the pilot vehicle – a test model that precedes full production – for the Metrolinx order.

At the end of August, Bombardier promised the pilot vehicle to Metrolinx within a few weeks. It has not yet arrived, but Mr. Lefebvre said it has been assembled and Metrolinx has toured the vehicle, which he said is now being tested.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...r-on-toronto-transit-project/article32093395/
 

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