[waterloowarrior]

In the above article of the Blackpool, Great Britain, tram bid was this little tidbit:


As I read it, in England, the federal government (ie. parliament, the Queen) will be paying the majority (ie. > 50%) of the cost of Blackpool's trams. We are still waiting for our federal government (ie. Harper) to make an announcemnt of when they will be paying for our streetcars. Canada is the only western country that does not support the operation of public transit at the federal level.

In Canada transit is a provincial responsibility (in terms of fed vs provincial, since municipalities are under provincial jurisdiction)... I don't see why people don't go after McGuinty more

 

[Automation Gallery]

In Canada transit is a provincial responsibility (in terms of fed vs provincial, since municipalities are under provincial jurisdiction)... I don't see why people don't go after McGuinty more

Because its easier to bad mouth Harper.

 

[EnviroTO]

^ and the federal government collects more than half the taxes and we can't figure out where it all goes.

 

[Whoaccio]

^ and the federal government collects more than half the taxes and we can't figure out where it all goes.

Much of it goes back to the provinces via transfer payments. More than 20% of the federal budget goes strait back to the provinces via the CHT, CST and equalization payments. I'm pretty sure we are the only G8 country where the cumulative spending of sub-national governments is more than that of the national government.

Anyways, I'll get chewed out for saying this, but we wouldn't be dealing with such a lengthy procurement process if we had replaced our trams with buses back in the day. Imagine how many buses we could buy for this money?

 

[EnviroTO]

Imagine how many buses we could buy for this money?

You could get a lot more buses but it would take about than 3.3 times the number of buses to replace a new tram. For the 2.3 additional buses you will need to pay additional salaries which is a yearly rather than a once every 18 to 25 year cost. For the 18 year lifespan of a bus you are paying about $2 million in salaries. So 2.3 * (400k + 2mil) = $5.2mil. A tram is $4.68mil and lasts longer than a bus. Where is the realized savings?

I'm not even looking at energy costs yet.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Lets hang those who bring their bicycles on board one of the new LRV's.

Clarification: hang the bicycles from hooks hanging from the ceiling in the new light rail vehicles. More space can be created by having the bicycles vertical instead of horizontal. Wonder if they can be put bicycle hooks on the subway cars?
Wonder if parents would end up hooking their babies in their carriers from the bicycles hooks? Sounds almost like fun for the kids.

 

[Brandon716]

Interesting!

 

[W. K. Lis]

How long will one of the new streetcars be?

About this long:

two PCC streetcars in length. With one driver, not two, unless you count a fare inspector as number two.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Anyways, I'll get chewed out for saying this, but we wouldn't be dealing with such a lengthy procurement process if we had replaced our trams with buses back in the day. Imagine how many buses we could buy for this money?

Amen. We also wouldn't have to rebuild tracks, replace wires and hire separate maintenance staff with different kinds of equipment.

I think that if we would have made the decision to go ahead and abandon the streetcar system in the 1970s, we would probably have a Queen subway today with a well-developed north-south bus system in the south of Bloor neighbourhoods. I think that combo would have been preferable to our current system of predominantly east-west streetcars with no rapid transit south of Bloor.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Amen. We also wouldn't have to rebuild tracks, replace wires and hire separate maintenance staff with different kinds of equipment.

I think that if we would have made the decision to go ahead and abandon the streetcar system in the 1970s, we would probably have a Queen subway today with a well-developed north-south bus system in the south of Bloor neighbourhoods. I think that combo would have been preferable to our current system of predominantly east-west streetcars with no rapid transit south of Bloor.

Perhaps we also could have approached the 'light rail revolution' from the same perspective as other cities and actually built and operated real, useful light rail lines.

 

[EnviroTO]

I think that if we would have made the decision to go ahead and abandon the streetcar system in the 1970s, we would probably have a Queen subway today with a well-developed north-south bus system in the south of Bloor neighbourhoods.

Just like all the other cities who abandoned the streetcar and have an amazing transit system now?

 

[Hipster Duck]

^IIRC, the plan was to kill the streetcars and build a subway under Queen. That alone is worth every streetcar line in the city as far as I'm concerned. You can't throw out a straw man argument like "cities that abandoned streetcars have bad public transit", because that wasn't the direction Toronto was going at all.

 

[RedRocket191]

^IIRC, the plan was to kill the streetcars and build a subway under Queen. That alone is worth every streetcar line in the city as far as I'm concerned. You can't throw out a straw man argument like "cities that abandoned streetcars have bad public transit", because that wasn't the direction Toronto was going at all.

Not necessarily. I would consider the streetcar abandonment policy and the Queen subway as two different project. There wasn't a concrete guarantee that the second would follow the first.

 

[EnviroTO]

I thought the whole plan was a streetcar subway under Queen.

 

[nfitz]

That was one plan - there was more than one plan.