UD2
Active Member
I'm forming a Toronto Independence Party.... Want to join?
If Quebec can do it even while the Harper circus lick their backsides, we have only more reason than they do.
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I'm forming a Toronto Independence Party.... Want to join?
If Quebec can do it even while the Harper circus lick their backsides, we have only more reason than they do.
ladyscraper
man alive
Typical of the conservatives. They should watch it though since if they don't give money for this they are not only screwing over Toronto (which they love to do) but they will be screwing over small town Ontario just as hard which is a place that they can get some votes.
This is a crap political system we have where you can continually screw over the biggest city (and therefore largest number of people) in the country because you don't need their vote to win.
This is a crap political system we have where you can continually screw over the biggest city (and therefore largest number of people) in the country because you don't need their vote to win.
Ansem
Banned
Baird to Miller: 'I'm sorry'
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/647877
Federal Transportation Minister John Baird apologized to Toronto Mayor David Miller this morning after Baird greeted the city's application for streetcar cash with a profane "f... off."
"Minister Baird called me this morning and apologized for his comments, and we agreed to work together to ensure that we find a way that Toronto can buy its new streetcars and create thousands of jobs in Thunder Bay and across southwestern Ontario,'' Miller told reporters this afternoon outside city hall.
The request for money to buy 204 new streetcars — the city applied under Ottawa's $4 billion economic stimulus fund — was shot down yesterday by Baird who was in Whistler B.C.
In an unguarded moment, Baird told aides that Toronto stood alone in not meeting the technical criteria for federal cash, yet was complaining about Ottawa dragging its feet.
"Twenty-seven hundred people got it right. They didn't. That is not a partnership and they're bitching at us," he said.
Then Baird said: "They should f--- off."
Miller said he believes the streetcars fall within the funding structure of Ottawa's program.
"If you look at the guidelines for the program, this fits perfectly," Miller told reporters. "We asked the province beforehand and they agreed."
He went on to say the benefits of the proposed streetcar purchase are "extraordinary'' because it would create thousands of jobs.
"We recreate a manufacturing industry that had been very damaged, and the federal and provincial governments will get probably hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue through the income taxes paid by the workers,'' Miller said.
Miller insisted the streetcars qualify as a "shovel-ready project.''
"We have a massive new program to build transit in Toronto, supported by the provincial and federal governments. You of course need the cars to run on it and we need to replace our streetcars.
"That's why it's the right kind of program for federal and provincial funding, and I'm quite optimistic we'll find a way to make sure the street car purchase occurs."
Toronto wants to purchase 204 new cars from Bombardier, to be built in Thunder Bay for $1.2 billion.
The proposed deal is set to expire June 27, and will die if no money is forthcoming from Ottawa and the province.
Earlier, several city councillors were critical of Miller for failing to properly sell Toronto's infrastructure request to Baird and Ontario infrastructure minister George Smitherman.
Councillors said today that a better sales job on Baird was needed because the request for streetcar funds initially didn't meet the rules that say the money must create local jobs this year and next.
Under the streetcar deal, vehicles would roll out of Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant from 2011 to 2018.
"If this were the one project we wanted to fund, it would have been important to speak to the minister in advance to ensure that this was the right project," said Councillor Karen Stintz.
"It certainly appears that that didn't happen, which is unfortunate."
Earlier, Smitherman had also expressed frustration with Toronto's single request for streetcar money, which differed from other municipalities that submitted a list of projects, Stintz said.
"With the streetcar contract, we've seen the province has been caught off guard. Now, the federal government has been caught off guard.
"Based on George Smitherman's comments a few weeks ago and now Minister Baird's comments, it appears the city didn't take all the steps it could have taken. And the mayor didn't take all the steps he could have taken to communicate that this was the one project that meant a lot to Toronto."
Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong, who has sparred with Miller over fixing Toronto's roads, said the city would have had no difficulty finding projects that clearly qualify for the $300 million-plus in federal funds that Toronto is seeking.
That may be why Baird was frustrated, Minnan-Wong said.
"I think the language he used was clearly inappropriate and regrettable, but it also — I think — reflects a level of frustration over not being able to fund projects that meet the guidelines," he said.
"I think he (Baird) wants to invest money into the city of Toronto for programs and projects that qualify. It's very difficult to give the city of Toronto money when they submit a single application that doesn't meet the requirements."
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/647877
Federal Transportation Minister John Baird apologized to Toronto Mayor David Miller this morning after Baird greeted the city's application for streetcar cash with a profane "f... off."
"Minister Baird called me this morning and apologized for his comments, and we agreed to work together to ensure that we find a way that Toronto can buy its new streetcars and create thousands of jobs in Thunder Bay and across southwestern Ontario,'' Miller told reporters this afternoon outside city hall.
The request for money to buy 204 new streetcars — the city applied under Ottawa's $4 billion economic stimulus fund — was shot down yesterday by Baird who was in Whistler B.C.
In an unguarded moment, Baird told aides that Toronto stood alone in not meeting the technical criteria for federal cash, yet was complaining about Ottawa dragging its feet.
"Twenty-seven hundred people got it right. They didn't. That is not a partnership and they're bitching at us," he said.
Then Baird said: "They should f--- off."
Miller said he believes the streetcars fall within the funding structure of Ottawa's program.
"If you look at the guidelines for the program, this fits perfectly," Miller told reporters. "We asked the province beforehand and they agreed."
He went on to say the benefits of the proposed streetcar purchase are "extraordinary'' because it would create thousands of jobs.
"We recreate a manufacturing industry that had been very damaged, and the federal and provincial governments will get probably hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue through the income taxes paid by the workers,'' Miller said.
Miller insisted the streetcars qualify as a "shovel-ready project.''
"We have a massive new program to build transit in Toronto, supported by the provincial and federal governments. You of course need the cars to run on it and we need to replace our streetcars.
"That's why it's the right kind of program for federal and provincial funding, and I'm quite optimistic we'll find a way to make sure the street car purchase occurs."
Toronto wants to purchase 204 new cars from Bombardier, to be built in Thunder Bay for $1.2 billion.
The proposed deal is set to expire June 27, and will die if no money is forthcoming from Ottawa and the province.
Earlier, several city councillors were critical of Miller for failing to properly sell Toronto's infrastructure request to Baird and Ontario infrastructure minister George Smitherman.
Councillors said today that a better sales job on Baird was needed because the request for streetcar funds initially didn't meet the rules that say the money must create local jobs this year and next.
Under the streetcar deal, vehicles would roll out of Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant from 2011 to 2018.
"If this were the one project we wanted to fund, it would have been important to speak to the minister in advance to ensure that this was the right project," said Councillor Karen Stintz.
"It certainly appears that that didn't happen, which is unfortunate."
Earlier, Smitherman had also expressed frustration with Toronto's single request for streetcar money, which differed from other municipalities that submitted a list of projects, Stintz said.
"With the streetcar contract, we've seen the province has been caught off guard. Now, the federal government has been caught off guard.
"Based on George Smitherman's comments a few weeks ago and now Minister Baird's comments, it appears the city didn't take all the steps it could have taken. And the mayor didn't take all the steps he could have taken to communicate that this was the one project that meant a lot to Toronto."
Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong, who has sparred with Miller over fixing Toronto's roads, said the city would have had no difficulty finding projects that clearly qualify for the $300 million-plus in federal funds that Toronto is seeking.
That may be why Baird was frustrated, Minnan-Wong said.
"I think the language he used was clearly inappropriate and regrettable, but it also — I think — reflects a level of frustration over not being able to fund projects that meet the guidelines," he said.
"I think he (Baird) wants to invest money into the city of Toronto for programs and projects that qualify. It's very difficult to give the city of Toronto money when they submit a single application that doesn't meet the requirements."
nfitz
Superstar
Did Mayor drop funding ball?
The Star has now retitled the article Baird to Miller: 'I'm sorry', and rewritten it.
Hmm, not a bit surprise that certain councillors would be quick to attack Miller.
Yes, it's one big political power play. And Miller is playing it beautifully. He's already got $9-billion out of the province this year for transit construction - most of it being paid for 100% by the province. And now everyone is in between a rock and a hard place if they don't fund this streetcar project as well, as there really isn't any alternative. What are they going to do ... suddenly pop for 400 buses and 2 new bus garages instead??
You know we are going to get these vehicles one way or another. Kudos to Miller for not being afraid to play the game! It's shear brilliance. It's up there to having his rubber arm twisted to get a Spadina subway extension, making it look as though he is the one giving the concession. Though the best is yet to come ... the "I guess I'll put up with a Yonge subway extension, if you pay 100% for it, let us operate it, pay for all the YUS upgrades to increase capacity, build us a downtown relief line to make enouch capacity available, and build a Sheppard East extension to Downsview to let the trains move to the yards" is perhaps the ultimate in power-plays.
The Star has now retitled the article Baird to Miller: 'I'm sorry', and rewritten it.
Hmm, not a bit surprise that certain councillors would be quick to attack Miller.
Yes, it's one big political power play. And Miller is playing it beautifully. He's already got $9-billion out of the province this year for transit construction - most of it being paid for 100% by the province. And now everyone is in between a rock and a hard place if they don't fund this streetcar project as well, as there really isn't any alternative. What are they going to do ... suddenly pop for 400 buses and 2 new bus garages instead??
You know we are going to get these vehicles one way or another. Kudos to Miller for not being afraid to play the game! It's shear brilliance. It's up there to having his rubber arm twisted to get a Spadina subway extension, making it look as though he is the one giving the concession. Though the best is yet to come ... the "I guess I'll put up with a Yonge subway extension, if you pay 100% for it, let us operate it, pay for all the YUS upgrades to increase capacity, build us a downtown relief line to make enouch capacity available, and build a Sheppard East extension to Downsview to let the trains move to the yards" is perhaps the ultimate in power-plays.
Jonny5
Senior Member
I wonder if Baird cares if construction workers from Oakville, Barrie and Whitby would participate in Toronto's infrastructure projects? They have to be LOCAL jobs remember! Local or from nearby Conservative ridings...
By the way... do we not have a giant sewer under Coxwell Ave that is threatening to blow up and spill all the sewage of Scarborough into the Don Valley, effectively turning it into a giant cesspool? What happened to that and do we have money to fix it yet? At the time, it sounded like the most urgent project ever.
By the way... do we not have a giant sewer under Coxwell Ave that is threatening to blow up and spill all the sewage of Scarborough into the Don Valley, effectively turning it into a giant cesspool? What happened to that and do we have money to fix it yet? At the time, it sounded like the most urgent project ever.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Brandon716
Senior Member
^ Odd? Not so much. This man obviously hates Toronto:
LOL, don't tell me this swarmy little man is what will stand between the TTC buying new light rail cars and hold the project up.
He looks overly melodramatic.
Disparishun
Active Member
I think a job is defined as local to the place where it is located, not the place where the worker who takes up the job resides.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
Wow. The apology is quite a turnaround. Wouldn't have bet on that.
I am agnostic on Miller's new strategy, which appears to be to shift from being the compliant, quiet junior partner to a much more aggressive plan of attack, whereby the City moves first and dares the province and Ottawa not to follow. I think it could easily blow up in all of our faces. But you never know.
And it's not like 'Plan A' was working, anyway...
I am agnostic on Miller's new strategy, which appears to be to shift from being the compliant, quiet junior partner to a much more aggressive plan of attack, whereby the City moves first and dares the province and Ottawa not to follow. I think it could easily blow up in all of our faces. But you never know.
And it's not like 'Plan A' was working, anyway...
Ansem
Banned
A surprise indeed...
It seems were getting the new streetcars after all...
It seems were getting the new streetcars after all...
allabootmatt
Senior Member
I wouldn't go quite there yet.
But I think we may be lucky in one respect: this is a bad week for the Tories; Lisa Raitt's antics are Keystone Kops-esque, and come on the heels of some pretty sharp criticism of Jim Flaherty's budget projections. The Liberals have clearly found their ballot issue, which is basically that the Tories are a bunch of amateurs, not ready for prime time. Even if many Canadians agree with Baird's sentiment, he was clearly being unprofessional--and, by bumbling into a room full of reporters without realizing it--incredibly bone-headed. It doesn't look good on him.
The biggest challenge for the Conservatives in government hasn't, as it's turned, out, been restraining the hard-right base--but rather in finding MPs competent to handle major portfolios. I wouldn't be surprised if the PMO were pretty annoyed with Baird.
But I think we may be lucky in one respect: this is a bad week for the Tories; Lisa Raitt's antics are Keystone Kops-esque, and come on the heels of some pretty sharp criticism of Jim Flaherty's budget projections. The Liberals have clearly found their ballot issue, which is basically that the Tories are a bunch of amateurs, not ready for prime time. Even if many Canadians agree with Baird's sentiment, he was clearly being unprofessional--and, by bumbling into a room full of reporters without realizing it--incredibly bone-headed. It doesn't look good on him.
The biggest challenge for the Conservatives in government hasn't, as it's turned, out, been restraining the hard-right base--but rather in finding MPs competent to handle major portfolios. I wouldn't be surprised if the PMO were pretty annoyed with Baird.
christof53
New Member
Ignatieff is expected to make a decision this week on whether he should bring down the Conservative government with a non-confidence vote and force a summer election.
Given what you just said, forcing an election right now would be wise for Ignatieff and the liberals.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
kettal
Banned
Baird has every right to be angry. How dare this stimulus money be used for creating good jobs, and build important infrastructure. That's not what stimulus is for!
TonyV
Senior Member
Baird won't be coming around here (apology or no) for a while I imagine.
Then, there are some of us who would deny him entry into our city-state -- we don't like bad dye jobs.
Then, there are some of us who would deny him entry into our city-state -- we don't like bad dye jobs.