nfitz
Superstar
Wow ...
Perhaps we should have some kind words for John Baird too ... what a useless piece of shit!
Perhaps we should have some kind words for John Baird too ... what a useless piece of shit!
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
AG:
Actually, the mayor have been anything but amicable to the senior levels of government in public, vis-a-vis Mel. And considering the amount that the city got screwed over by those two (like, how quickly is the promised infrastructure money from say what, two years+ ago flowing?), I think you got your complaints slightly misplaced.
hkric88:
And yes, if you submit proposals for a zillion things, you are just as liable to get the f*ck off comment - and certainly, the Feds have no qualms about funding the far more dubious proposition of Sheppard LRT, in comparison to legitimate case of replacing the streetcars.
AoD
Actually, the mayor have been anything but amicable to the senior levels of government in public, vis-a-vis Mel. And considering the amount that the city got screwed over by those two (like, how quickly is the promised infrastructure money from say what, two years+ ago flowing?), I think you got your complaints slightly misplaced.
hkric88:
And yes, if you submit proposals for a zillion things, you are just as liable to get the f*ck off comment - and certainly, the Feds have no qualms about funding the far more dubious proposition of Sheppard LRT, in comparison to legitimate case of replacing the streetcars.
AoD
grey
Senior Member
The bigger picture is that mayor David Miller cant stand anyone in the Upper Government.
Sorry Buddy, get your shit together.
"What goes around comes around"
Yeah, right.
Toronto forget to check off box b in subsection ii, part v of form 6, so therefore it won’t get money
*SNARRRRRL*
Love the picture that The Star put with it. Since when did a f*cking bridge to America become Canada’s #1 infrastructure priority? I wonder which Tory riding that is...
ShonTron
Moderator
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Ansem
Banned
1-Miller and Giambrone are incompetent if they indeed screwd up their bid... The only one out of 2700 is shameful.
2-I always said it was pure stupidity that they did not include DRL and Sheppard in their bid. Not only we wont get DRL for another decennies but the city will have to pay for the streetcars...100% of the invoice...
Will Miller increase the taxes of others services fee? Or maybe the Metropass?
3-Miller doesn't deserve to be reelected.
4-As far as Baird is concerned, I will f--k off and gladly vote liberal.
2-I always said it was pure stupidity that they did not include DRL and Sheppard in their bid. Not only we wont get DRL for another decennies but the city will have to pay for the streetcars...100% of the invoice...
Will Miller increase the taxes of others services fee? Or maybe the Metropass?
3-Miller doesn't deserve to be reelected.
4-As far as Baird is concerned, I will f--k off and gladly vote liberal.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Looks like they only 'screwed it up' in the sense that they put forward for the LRTs which were technically ineligible from the start due to some stupid rules governing the stimulus package. See here: "[Baird] said Toronto's submission is ineligible because it doesn't focus on job creation within the next two years in the 416 area."
Since the brunt of the jobs will actually be created in Thunder Bay within the next two years, and not the 416, it's ineligible for the money the federal government is offering. Which speaks to the ridiculous strings the government has tied around this money, frankly.
I doubt the City will pay for 100% of the streetcars. They can't afford them. The deadline's not until the 27th. This will get worked out.
The DRL and Sheppard would not have qualified under the Tory standards, either. The stimulus money came with so many ridiculous strings attached that essentially municipalities are just going to end up building bridges for the hell of it.
Fares are frozen for the rest of 2009, at least.
No one decent is going to run against him and his support is strong. He'll win.
Good call. I think the Cons might actually relent on this issue because they've already taken a bunch of shots to the face in the GTA over the last few weeks - they need some good PR.
Ansem
Banned
So if Siemens won the bid and built a plant in Downview, then the feds would have paid their share since they would have created new jobs within the 416...Do I get this correctly?
PS: Silly conservatives that keep forgetting that if they were nicer to Toronto they would have won a majority, which they lost by approx. 10 seats
PS: Silly conservatives that keep forgetting that if they were nicer to Toronto they would have won a majority, which they lost by approx. 10 seats
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nfitz
Superstar
The City of Toronto asked for only 2 things from the stimulus funding, 1/3 of the streetcar, and 1/3 of the new barn in the Portlands for the streetcar. That's not a dozen things, let alone a zillion ... and a lot shorter list than I've seen from much smaller towns, which got down to the detail level of line-painting on roads.
I was absolutely horrified picking up the Toronto Star this morning and finding that a senior minister in our federal government had so little respect for the citizens of Toronto, that he would tell them to fuck off. And I'm even more shocked that as the day has gone on, that there has been no apology, or censure from the Prime Minister. Which is implicitly also telling us to fuck off.
Well fuck them!
christof53
New Member
I hate John Baird. I hated him when he was the Environment Minister, and now as the Transport Minister. He is an incompetent fool. I hope there is an election again this summer/autumn.
Here is one of my favourite videos of Baird as Environment Minister.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_t_Qv1lYk8
Skip to 1:15 for the good stuff.
Here is one of my favourite videos of Baird as Environment Minister.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_t_Qv1lYk8
Skip to 1:15 for the good stuff.
smuncky
Senior Member
sounded like sarah palin in that video.
Ansem
Banned
Did Mayor drop funding ball?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/647877
Mayor David Miller failed to properly sell Toronto's infrastructure request to federal Transport Minister John Baird and Ontario infrastructure minister George Smitherman, some city councillors are saying.
The councillors were reacting to a Toronto Star story today in which Baird was overheard telling aides that Toronto stood alone in not meeting the technical criteria for federal infrastructure cash, yet was complaining about Ottawa dragging its feet.
Toronto sought money to replace its aging streetcar fleet by submitting just one application while most municipalities submitted long lists of infrastructure projects ranging from bridge repairs to sewer upgrades.
Mayor David Miller said Toronto simply wants funds to buy 204 streetcars from Bombardier, to be built at a cost of $1.2 billion. The proposed deal will expire June 27 and will collapse if federal and provincial money isn't forthcoming by then.
Councillors said today that a better sales job on Baird was needed because the request for streetcar funds doesn't meet the rules that say the money must create local jobs this year and next.
Under the streetcar deal, vehicles would roll out of Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant from 2011 to 2018.
"If this were the one project we wanted to fund, it would have been important to speak to the minister in advance to ensure that this was the right project," said Councillor Karen Stintz.
"It certainly appears that that didn't happen, which is unfortunate."
Earlier, Smitherman had also expressed frustration with Toronto's single request for streetcar money, which differed from other municipalities that submitted a list of projects, Stintz said.
"With the streetcar contract, we've seen the province has been caught off guard. Now, the federal government has been caught off guard.
"Based on George Smitherman's comments a few weeks ago and now Minister Baird's comments, it appears the city didn't take all the steps it could have taken. And the mayor didn't take all the steps he could have taken to communicate that this was the one project that meant a lot to Toronto."
While Baird expressed concern that the request doesn't create jobs in Toronto, that's incorrect because a better functioning transit system is good for the local economy, said Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone.
"I think everybody will benefit from this streetcar deal because it allows mobility in the Toronto area and ensures a future that will be more prosperous.
"So it does create jobs in Toronto. It's a false assumption to say there's no employment benefit for Toronto."
Miller has said that he is optimistic about the prospects of receiving funding from Ottawa. "If this isn't infrastructure stimulus, I don't know what is," he said recently.
Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong, who has sparred with Miller over fixing Toronto's roads, said the city would have no difficulty finding projects that clearly qualify for the $300 million-plus in federal funds that Toronto is seeking.
That may be why Baird is frustrated, Minnan-Wong said.
"I think the language he used was clearly inappropriate and regrettable (Baird was overheard using a profanity while discussing Toronto's request), but it also — I think — reflects a level of frustration over not being able to fund projects that meet the guidelines," he said.
"I think he (Baird) wants to invest money into the city of Toronto for programs and projects that qualify. It's very difficult to give the city of Toronto money when they submit a single application that doesn't meet the requirements."
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/647877
Mayor David Miller failed to properly sell Toronto's infrastructure request to federal Transport Minister John Baird and Ontario infrastructure minister George Smitherman, some city councillors are saying.
The councillors were reacting to a Toronto Star story today in which Baird was overheard telling aides that Toronto stood alone in not meeting the technical criteria for federal infrastructure cash, yet was complaining about Ottawa dragging its feet.
Toronto sought money to replace its aging streetcar fleet by submitting just one application while most municipalities submitted long lists of infrastructure projects ranging from bridge repairs to sewer upgrades.
Mayor David Miller said Toronto simply wants funds to buy 204 streetcars from Bombardier, to be built at a cost of $1.2 billion. The proposed deal will expire June 27 and will collapse if federal and provincial money isn't forthcoming by then.
Councillors said today that a better sales job on Baird was needed because the request for streetcar funds doesn't meet the rules that say the money must create local jobs this year and next.
Under the streetcar deal, vehicles would roll out of Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant from 2011 to 2018.
"If this were the one project we wanted to fund, it would have been important to speak to the minister in advance to ensure that this was the right project," said Councillor Karen Stintz.
"It certainly appears that that didn't happen, which is unfortunate."
Earlier, Smitherman had also expressed frustration with Toronto's single request for streetcar money, which differed from other municipalities that submitted a list of projects, Stintz said.
"With the streetcar contract, we've seen the province has been caught off guard. Now, the federal government has been caught off guard.
"Based on George Smitherman's comments a few weeks ago and now Minister Baird's comments, it appears the city didn't take all the steps it could have taken. And the mayor didn't take all the steps he could have taken to communicate that this was the one project that meant a lot to Toronto."
While Baird expressed concern that the request doesn't create jobs in Toronto, that's incorrect because a better functioning transit system is good for the local economy, said Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone.
"I think everybody will benefit from this streetcar deal because it allows mobility in the Toronto area and ensures a future that will be more prosperous.
"So it does create jobs in Toronto. It's a false assumption to say there's no employment benefit for Toronto."
Miller has said that he is optimistic about the prospects of receiving funding from Ottawa. "If this isn't infrastructure stimulus, I don't know what is," he said recently.
Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong, who has sparred with Miller over fixing Toronto's roads, said the city would have no difficulty finding projects that clearly qualify for the $300 million-plus in federal funds that Toronto is seeking.
That may be why Baird is frustrated, Minnan-Wong said.
"I think the language he used was clearly inappropriate and regrettable (Baird was overheard using a profanity while discussing Toronto's request), but it also — I think — reflects a level of frustration over not being able to fund projects that meet the guidelines," he said.
"I think he (Baird) wants to invest money into the city of Toronto for programs and projects that qualify. It's very difficult to give the city of Toronto money when they submit a single application that doesn't meet the requirements."
DSC
Superstar
You can bet that if Toronto had put in a list of 1000 items the Feds and Smitherman would say we need to prioritise; when we DO prioritise we are told to 'fuck off'. It is interesting that the Feds say that the jobs created must be in the 416 area, if Thunder Bay had put in the request for Toronto streetcars I bet they would have said that this was wrong too.
Toronto clearly needs new streetcars and seems to have, at least the second time around, selected carefully AND got a good price. If we had not already selected the best bid I am sure the Feds (and Smitherman) would say 'we can't decide on funding until we know the total price'. The City simply can't win.
I suspect the $$ will arrive but it is a pretty poor example of cooperation and the blame seems to fall squarely on Smitherman and the ill-mannered Baird.
Toronto clearly needs new streetcars and seems to have, at least the second time around, selected carefully AND got a good price. If we had not already selected the best bid I am sure the Feds (and Smitherman) would say 'we can't decide on funding until we know the total price'. The City simply can't win.
I suspect the $$ will arrive but it is a pretty poor example of cooperation and the blame seems to fall squarely on Smitherman and the ill-mannered Baird.
UD2
Active Member
whine whine whine.... pathetic.... either give the money or come out like a self respecting human being and say that you don't want to.
.............but it's your fault because you didn't draw me a picture!!!!!!!
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this is a carefully plotted PMO strategy to get "Fuck off Toronto" coming from a Tory minister as a headline. They've written off our city. They're hoping to pick up more seats/hold on to their seats in the rest of Ontario.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
If it cannot be seen that this is and has always been a political power play then I don't know what more can be said.
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