DSCToronto
Superstar
Maybe .... but your already tattered reputation shreds even more. As with many things, it is often best to admit that there's a problem and 'reset the clock'.
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dowlingm
Senior Member
Richard White
Senior Member
I said it before and I say it again... Bombardier is a failing company. They try their best to prove they deserve a chance but when they get it they cannot come up with the goods.
I personally think this will be the last contract the TTC has with them.
pstogios
Senior Member
I personally think this is the beginning of the end for this snake oil company.
Richard White
Senior Member
I know a someone who works at the Downsview facility for Bombardier who is thinking of jumping ship. Despite it being a different division (Aerospace VS Rail) there is an overwhelming sense of concern. Think of Bombardier like a human being. If a limb is diseased and you let it be it will only end up killing the person, which is essentially the same thing at Bombardier.
At Bombardier the rail division is sinking the company and will eventually cause the company to tank. I do not want this to go too far off topic but I would like to mention that if I was the TTC I would be looking at my options because it is not a matter of if but when Bombardier will go bankrupt.
They are a very limited company in terms of their offering. They only offer small jets instead of larger commercial jets, their rail division puts out the same cookie cutter trams that cannot compete with Siemens, Alstom and Skoda. They focused too much on smaller, more off the shelf products much to their demise.
books
Active Member
I saw both 4424 and 4444 heading westbound on Queen at Jones this afternoon. Both were out of service, went by about ten minutes apart, and each had a few people on board. Training, perhaps?
smallspy
Senior Member
The rail division set a record for sales in 2016, and through the first half of this year was on pace to break that record for 2017. For many years, it has kept the company afloat as they had humongous struggles with the aviation side, both from a lack of sales of commercial aircraft (partially offset by military sales) and by the prolonged gestation of the C-Series program.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Richard White
Senior Member
Time will only tell. Just because they had record sales does not mean they can deliver and if they cannot deliver the sales mean nothing. Delays and penalties add up, all those extra costs associated with fixing the delays amount to something.
They could have a record year for sales but if the amount of money they are losing across all divisions is greater than the amount of sales the company WILL go bust. Its not about the amount of sales... it is about the balance sheets.
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drum118
Superstar
Looks like 4444 and 4445 will finally enter service Tuesday, though I not sure if 4444 will since it out for testing.
4445 has been in the service Bay since last week after racking up extra burn in and has just been moved to the yard.
4444 until last week, has been in the service bay since arrival and has burn in more than the require distance since then. It has been out since 10 pm last night with a few hours at the barns and still out, but on its way to the Barns. It was in service on 505 and 506 testing the system to the point it went to High Park while on 505.
4446 is not tracking yet.
Not sure if TTC trying to get ahead of the failure rate before going into service, or still poor quality coming from the plant, but cars are taking longer to see service, but not as bad as some. There has only been only 2 car in the last few months that has gone into service in the 8-10 day time frame. 4444 has been here 18 days and 4445 13 days. Since 4438 that was 10 days, the others have been about 14 days.
At the rate things are going, BBD is starting to loose the NA market and doesn't blow well for it in the long run.
Both TTC and Metrolinx need to go to the market on all future order to protect their rear for both price wise as well delivery time frame. They needs to look at the quality to make sure it meet failure requirements. The new streetcars so far have fail the mean test and teeth time is over, considering BBD has already had an extra 2 years by being this late. Other than a coach or 2 by existing customer for BBD Bi-Level cars, BBD has lost that market in the US already. Only GO Transit getting those cars today.
TTC should not allow BBD to bid on the next order of TR's, let along the option for the new streetcar fleet.
4445 has been in the service Bay since last week after racking up extra burn in and has just been moved to the yard.
4444 until last week, has been in the service bay since arrival and has burn in more than the require distance since then. It has been out since 10 pm last night with a few hours at the barns and still out, but on its way to the Barns. It was in service on 505 and 506 testing the system to the point it went to High Park while on 505.
4446 is not tracking yet.
Not sure if TTC trying to get ahead of the failure rate before going into service, or still poor quality coming from the plant, but cars are taking longer to see service, but not as bad as some. There has only been only 2 car in the last few months that has gone into service in the 8-10 day time frame. 4444 has been here 18 days and 4445 13 days. Since 4438 that was 10 days, the others have been about 14 days.
At the rate things are going, BBD is starting to loose the NA market and doesn't blow well for it in the long run.
Both TTC and Metrolinx need to go to the market on all future order to protect their rear for both price wise as well delivery time frame. They needs to look at the quality to make sure it meet failure requirements. The new streetcars so far have fail the mean test and teeth time is over, considering BBD has already had an extra 2 years by being this late. Other than a coach or 2 by existing customer for BBD Bi-Level cars, BBD has lost that market in the US already. Only GO Transit getting those cars today.
TTC should not allow BBD to bid on the next order of TR's, let along the option for the new streetcar fleet.
dowlingm
Senior Member
No sign of 4444 or 4445 yet.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I am, honestly, not sure what you are saying so I will break your last paragraph down into two component sentences because I find the two components contradictory and confusing when combined.
.....but then you jump in with a closing sentence that says:
So now we are throwing the income statement out the window (under the bus/tram ?
) and stating that its all about the balance sheet (I have removed the plural because any company keeping two balance sheets probably has more legal than accounting problems).
So, tell me, which case are you making? There likely is a case either way........but not sure that making them both in a two sentence paragraph is the what you were doing.
This suggests that the income and cashflow statements of the company will determine if they will survive......it says if the loses exceed sales then they will go bust (now I have to assume that I am missing something in that statement alone because losses are actually a derivative/component of sales as what generates profits is that the revenue from sales exceeds the costs of producing what is sold and the difference is profit....."losses" occur when the costs of running the company and producing and selling the product are higher than the revenue/sales....if the losses themselves exceed those revenues then you probably should not have bothered in the first place)....that all aside you seem to be saying that the key determinant of the survival of the company is their income statement.....and some might agree with that........
.....but then you jump in with a closing sentence that says:
So now we are throwing the income statement out the window (under the bus/tram ?
) and stating that its all about the balance sheet (I have removed the plural because any company keeping two balance sheets probably has more legal than accounting problems).So, tell me, which case are you making? There likely is a case either way........but not sure that making them both in a two sentence paragraph is the what you were doing.
smallspy
Senior Member
You seem to have a very narrow view of what Bombardier does.
The North American market is a very small part of their total sales. Just because they are late on two projects - the LFLRV and Metrolinx cars - doesn't mean that they are late on a whole host of others, especially when they are being built at completely different facilities.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
drum118
Superstar
4444 is in the service bay, considering it went out for testing again at 1 am today as I heading to bed. It has to have over 1,000 km or more on it based on the amount of time its been out that I know of.
4445 is out in Lake Ontario and has been there all day. Like 4444, it has over 1,000 km on it that I know of.
Richard White
Senior Member
The point I was attempting to make was that if they are spending more than they are bringing in (being in the red vs being in the black) they will go belly up no matter which division is the most profitable.
Richard White
Senior Member
Maybe it's just me but can someone enlighten me as to why one of our streetcars is in the lake?