[nfitz]

As nfitz said, the plan is to have both: vending machines in the cars and at busier stops.

Hopefully, if the machines are a success, we'll see them expanded to some of the busier bus stops as well. There's only one bus stop currently, with a ticket vending machine currently, as far as I know.

 

[leopetr]

I don't think there's any requirement for Presto to be implemented, to use the new vehicles. If that were true, you'd not be able to pay your fare without Presto, unless you had a Metrocard, or a valid transfer. While it will be interesting to see the new ticket machines on the vehicles, and at selected stops, presumably they will be able to take other media than Presto, such as coins and tokens.

There is precisely such a requirement. The operator will be in a locked cabin entirely separate from the passenger compartment. There is no one to collect coins or tokens, and I would very much hope that TTC does not spend money inventing an extra machine that spits out paper transfers in exchange for a token just to allow for legacy payment media.

I also expect Metropasses to go away when TTC properly rolls out Presto.

 

[nfitz]

There is precisely such a requirement.

Can you point to that? There's an agreement with Ontario that vehicles will implement Presto. But I don't see what would constrain operation without Presto. Obviously kids will still be able to board a streetcar and pay with coins. No one has suggested that wouldn't be able to happen.

There is no one to collect coins or tokens, and I would very much hope that TTC does not spend money inventing an extra machine that spits out paper transfers in exchange for a token just to allow for legacy payment media.

Obviously they would have to be able to take coins. How else would kids pay? Either that or pre-paid tickets (which would be returned to you by the machine, and then act as a transfer). Clearly, your not going to require every child in the city to get a Presto card for an occasional trip. And what about visitors? Obviously the ticket sales machines will be accepting Presto, pre-paid tickets and probably coiins, bills, debit, or credit. And obviously they are going to issue a ticket (that acts as a transfer).

I also expect Metropasses to go away when TTC properly rolls out Presto.

I expect that they will continue, and that they would simply be loaded onto a Presto card.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the Presto website:

PRESTO does not offer reduced-rate concession fares on the TTC at this time

However, on the page about the reduced fares, it appears that other Presto users could:

Fares for Children, Students & Seniors

Some transit providers offer reduced-rate fare categories to eligible PRESTO card holders, as well as loyalty discount programs for frequent travelers. Not all transit providers are offering reduced-rate concession fare categories at this time. Please check with your local transit provider for more information.

Children:

• 6 to 12 years of age inclusive.
• Proof of birth date required.

Students:

• 13 to 19 years of age inclusive.
• Enrolled as a full time student.
• Photo ID with birth date and proof of enrolment required.

Seniors:

• 65 years of age and above.
• Photo ID with birth date required.

How does it work?

1. Register your PRESTO card.
2. Visit a customer service outlet and have a reduced-rate fare category set-up on your PRESTO card.
3. Travel using your PRESTO card and you’ll automatically pay reduced-rate fares at participating transit agencies.
4. Ensure that you carry poof of eligibility (photo ID, student card, etc...) with you whenever you travel.

The TTC has to get fully on board with PRESTO for it to handle the reduced fares. Hope to hear it soon before the new streetcar actually enter revenue service.

As for the actual agreement, you need to read the Chief Executive Officer's Report, where there is the following:

PRESTO / TTC Farecard Project

The Commission has approved the framework for finalizing agreements with Metrolinx regarding the implementation of PRESTO at the TTC. There are some outstanding issues to resolve, but it is expected that the agreements will be finalized over the next few months. PRESTO and the TTC are beginning to develop a detailed scheduled for the project in anticipation of these agreements being signed.

In parallel, TTC and PRESTO continue to focus efforts in two key areas: (i) the system design and development for the implementation of PRESTO equipment on the Legacy LRV’s; and (ii) for the civil works necessary at TTC facilities to support PRESTO implementation and operation. Finalizing the system design for PRESTO on the Legacy LRV’s is particularly critical, owing to the current status of the overall design and development of the LRV’s. TTC is working with PRESTO to resolve issues related to these areas.

 

[the lemur]

I think the point is that the operator of the vehicle would not be involved in the fare payment process. So that means machines on board the vehicle and/or at the stop that issue tickets (which function as transfers) in exchange for cash and which accept prepaid tickets, cash and Presto/other passes. That pretty much makes tokens redundant.

Ideally I would like a system such as London has on its buses, where you board with either a ticket you purchase at the stop or a prepaid fare medium such as Oyster that is scanned. Last time I was there, I read in the paper about a bus being taken out of service (after the driver had been assaulted) and the passengers being given a 'transfer' (as the article put it, in quotes) in order to be able to board another vehicle without paying again - it was clear that the writer and the passengers had never encountered such a thing before. Hilarious.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

I'm still worried about the length of these things. As a fretful left-leaning city councillor pointed out to me some time ago, these have the potential to truly turn the non-riding public against streetcars. When I'm not riding the King car in the winter months, I'm busy trying to get past them at stoplights on my bike, or (worse) in a cab. Getting around streetcars is the prime event in the downtown driving Olympics. And these things are going to be really, really hard to get around.

I'm hoping the decision to move Toronto from many streetcars to fewer, longer caterpillar-like trains that perform better in ROWs doesn't undermine the cause of transit in general.

 

[car4041]

I'm still worried about the length of these things. As a fretful left-leaning city councillor pointed out to me some time ago, these have the potential to truly turn the non-riding public against streetcars. When I'm not riding the King car in the winter months, I'm busy trying to get past them at stoplights on my bike, or (worse) in a cab. Getting around streetcars is the prime event in the downtown driving Olympics. And these things are going to be really, really hard to get around.

I'm hoping the decision to move Toronto from many streetcars to fewer, longer caterpillar-like trains that perform better in ROWs doesn't undermine the cause of transit in general.

They're 16ft longer than the existing ALRVs. The length of a Toyota Camry. Is that enough of a difference to turn the city against transit? I would think that most drivers who would be inclined to hate streetcars already do hate them. (Though yes, it will be a bigger change for routes that currently just have CLRVs.)

I'm not so worried. The fact that boarding will be much faster should give a noticeable reduction in the amount of time that the streetcar holds up traffic at busy stops. It seems to me that that might make up for any aggravation caused by the length of the cars.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not so worried. The fact that boarding will be much faster should give a noticeable reduction in the amount of time that the streetcar holds up traffic at busy stops. It seems to me that that might make up for any aggravation caused by the length of the cars.

Agreed. The worst delay seems to be when there are 2-3 cars together at a major intersection. Even the following streetcars are delayed by all the traffic that can't move past the first car, that takes forever with people filing 1x1 through the front door. Not only should the dwell time at the stop be a lot quicker at busy stops, but there will be less of having 2 short streetcars travelling together. This should benefit car drivers - though I'm sure that many won't see it that way.

Personally, I find the worst east-west road in the area to be Bloor-Danforth ... hard to see how streetcars are doing much to slow that one down.

 

[grey]

The 510 Spadina streetcar will be out of service for a while for track maintenance and ROW improvements (!!!) for the new streetcars.

http://torontoist.com/2012/06/the-spadina-bus-is-coming-back-temporarily/

Platform improvements are mentioned -- I wonder if the lame 90s shelters and fencing will be updated to St Clair specs?

 

[Jonny5]

Platform improvements are mentioned -- I wonder if the lame 90s shelters and fencing will be updated to St Clair specs?

Hopefully not. The St. Clair shelters offer no shelter from anything. At least the Spadina shelters can keep out the rain somewhat and a bit out of the wind and sun.

 

[DSC]

Hopefully not. The St. Clair shelters offer no shelter from anything. At least the Spadina shelters can keep out the rain somewhat and a bit out of the wind and sun.

They already (and recently) added / upgraded a new set of platforms and shelters on Bathurst @ King and I would expect the Spadina ones will be the same design.

 

[nfitz]

They already (and recently) added / upgraded a new set of platforms and shelters on Bathurst @ King and I would expect the Spadina ones will be the same design.

There's no reserved right-of-way on Bathurst at King, so I wouldn't expect them to be the same. Also, I'd expect the Spadina stops would include the power supply for the new ticket machines - if they aren't ready to install the actual machines yet.

 

[Jonny5]

There's no reserved right-of-way on Bathurst at King, so I wouldn't expect them to be the same. Also, I'd expect the Spadina stops would include the power supply for the new ticket machines - if they aren't ready to install the actual machines yet.

The tender includes installation of conduits for ticket machines.

Bathurst at King does not have a right of way, however, the road width is very wide and the new islands look noticeably higher and wider to me than the old style, so the shelters may in fact be the same design on Spadina.

 

[car4041]

They already (and recently) added / upgraded a new set of platforms and shelters on Bathurst @ King and I would expect the Spadina ones will be the same design.

Are we actually going to get new shelters? The description on the TTC website says this:

length, slope and elevation adjustments, inclusion of way-finding treatment, extension of some railings, reinforcement of some shelters and the relocation of some platform furniture, i.e. stop pole, shelter sections and removal of trees to ensure unobstructed access

 

[the lemur]

Have any plans/images of the new infrastructure (specifically the platforms) been posted anywhere?