[rbt]

I assume you're referring to reimbursement rates for use of a personal car for work purposes... those numbers always seem very high given actual gas cost and depreciation (which is tied more to age of vehicle than mileage).

So, you're telling me that Domino's Pizza and similar chains are voluntarily over-paying delivery staff for vehicle reimbursement, 55 cents per mile average through much of the US. For some, like Pizza Hut, the rate actually changes depending on the model and year of vehicle. They were successfully sued for underpaying reimbursements in the past (50 cents per delivery in 2004).

 

[nfitz]

The fast delivery lends me to believe they would be an exercised option on the existing 60 foot order.

They'd talked about leasing earlier. There's more 40-footers available.

I can't imagine that there'd be fast delivery on any new vehicles - they'd need to jump the queue on other deliveries. And I'd think it would be just as fast if they exercised another option on 40-footers given they are coming from the same manufacturer as the 55 40-footers that will be delivered this year.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Those reimbursement rates are based on the actual costs of an average car. Yes, including depreciation. The last Civic I had depreciated $12,000 in about 120,000 km so that's 10 cents/kilometre right there.

We're not giving up the car (or driving so much as to wear it out sooner) so your analysis isn't really accurate. Depreciation is a combination of age and mileage, so you have to figure out the variable (per km) portion. Even if I leave the car at home, it will still depreciate over time. For example, your civic might only be worth a few thousand less if it had 200,000 km instead of 120,000, so the per km cost is not that high. For most cars, you are better off driving more because the fixed costs are such a large proportion of the total expense. I would imagine that there are many 1 car households in the city who are doing similar calculations...

I live not so far from Woodbine station. 40 minutes on the subway? You exaggerate a bit. Google maps says 23 minutes from Woodbine to Dundas mid-morning off-peak ... same on Saturdays.

Google maps is pretty inaccurate, plus it takes me around 8 minutes to walk from my front door to the subway platform. By contrast, our car is on the street in front of the house.

This is the kind of reason that most in this situation have a Metropass. Given that the cost of a Metropass is the cost of 43 tokens (don't forget the 15% tax credit on passes), the Metropass is pretty much paid for with 20 days of work in a month. For extra savings, I've got an annual subscription, so it's paid for in less than 40 trips per month.

On average, each month has 21.75 weekdays. If we round to 22, that means you have to take at least 1 round trip for every weekday to break even. If you take any days off (including stat holidays) or use other means of transportation and don't make it up elsewhere, then you are better off with tokens. For example, January has 1 holiday, and I took 2 vacation days so I'm only scheduled to work 19 days. February is a short month and also has a stat holiday, so there are only 19 work days then too. If I was in the MDP I would have to sell my pass for at least 6 months of the year, which is too much trouble for me to justify it.

I'm certainly not anti-TTC or anti-Metropass, just trying to point out that the TTC has increased the trip multiplier to the point where many people are better off with tokens, and therefore less likely to make discretionary trips on transit.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

So, you're telling me that Domino's Pizza and similar chains are voluntarily over-paying delivery staff for vehicle reimbursement, 55 cents per mile average through much of the US. For some, like Pizza Hut, the rate actually changes depending on the model and year of vehicle. They were successfully sued for underpaying reimbursements in the past (50 cents per delivery in 2004).

Those guys are probably driving cars into the ground due to the amount of mileage they're putting on it. By contrast, our car will probably rust out before mileage-based wear and tear starts to become an issue.

 

[nfitz]

Google maps is pretty inaccurate ...

I find if anything it's faster normally, because Google maps is very conservative on transfers. 23 minutes from Woodbine to Dundas is my experience.

plus it takes me around 8 minutes to walk from my front door to the subway platform. By contrast, our car is on the street in front of the house.

Ah, from your comments, I thought you lived near the station.

On average, each month has 21.75 weekdays. If we round to 22, that means you have to take at least 1 round trip for every weekday to break even. If you take any days off (including stat holidays) or use other means of transportation and don't make it up elsewhere, then you are better off with tokens. For example, January has 1 holiday, and I took 2 vacation days so I'm only scheduled to work 19 days. February is a short month and also has a stat holiday, so there are only 19 work days then too. If I was in the MDP I would have to sell my pass for at least 6 months of the year, which is too much trouble for me to justify it.

That assumes one never takes TTC other than going to work. That's pretty hard to fathom living in that area. You never stop somewhere on the way home to pick something up? You never jump on the subway at lunch to do some shopping or run an errand? You never go to the doctor, dentist, optometrist? You never go to a ball game? You never go downtown on a weekend (when driving always seems hellish). You never go the gym? You never go out for a drink? If you lived in suburbia ... I could see it. But near Danforth!

I'm certainly not anti-TTC or anti-Metropass, just trying to point out that the TTC has increased the trip multiplier to the point where many people are better off with tokens, and therefore less likely to make discretionary trips on transit.

Hopefully, this is where switching to a monthly rate-capping scheme with Presto pays off. Suddenly for those on the cusp, transit makes more sense, because they ended up doing 2-3 unplanned trips - and at the same time, haven't worried about taking sick days or something.

Though what I hate about tokens ... I'm close to Gerrard, so taking the streetcar to Yonge/Dundas is faster than walking 10 minutes to the subway, and then doing a 23-minute ride. When I change streetcars, if I'm on a pass, and I've got a 5-minute wait, I start walking - both to get some exercise, and perhaps grab something in Chinatown (some fruit perhaps). With tokens, I can't board again except back at the transfer point, so I have to stand there waiting, rather than being able to get some exercise. Perhaps a non-issue if your stuck in a subway tunnel - though there's been times I've walked out at Bloor/Yonge, hit a store half-way to Wellesley, and boarded at Wellseley to go south ...

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Oh, I do make stops along the way, particularly when I do have a metropass. If I don't, the extra fare is a pretty big incentive to minimize other trips. My office is in the PATH, and I can do most errands and social outings on foot, either downtown or close to home, or I just borrow a metropass from a co-worker during the day. Other than my doctor and dentist, I find there aren't many points of interest between downtown and home. Sometimes I do have to cough up an extra token, but it's not enough to justify a metropass for this month. Maybe February I will if my wife can snag a VIP pass from her workplace, and definitely for March.

I'm really looking forward to the full roll-out of Presto, particularly since Presto fares also count for the federal tax credit. As it is today I could walk to Union (from St. Andrew) to use Presto, but I don't really care about saving 15% that badly.

 

[nfitz]

I'm really looking forward to the full roll-out of Presto, particularly since Presto fares also count for the federal tax credit. As it is today I could walk to Union (from St. Andrew) to use Presto, but I don't really care about saving 15% that badly.

St. Andrew is part of the Phase 1 rollout, so should be done sometime this year.

The one advantage I have, is that I'm right near a streetcar stop - it's probably quicker to walk out the front door and be on the streetcar, than it is to manoeuvre the car out of the parking spot behind the house. I'll even jump on for 3 stops to the hardware store on a Saturday, if there's one coming. Warmer than walking, or the car that hasn't warmed up only driving 1 km.

I can see if you've got a 10-minute walk just to get to the station - and then have to wait for a train (as opposed to simply seeing when the streetcar is coming, and leaving the house to meet it), that the car becomes more tempting - particularly in the rain or cold.

Another incentive was that my first child would scream blue murder in the car. But she was find in a baby-carrier on the streetcar. It was a lot less stressful to take transit for a while, especially if you were alone with her ... and it became a habit.

 

[smallspy]

They'd talked about leasing earlier. There's more 40-footers available.

I can't imagine that there'd be fast delivery on any new vehicles - they'd need to jump the queue on other deliveries. And I'd think it would be just as fast if they exercised another option on 40-footers given they are coming from the same manufacturer as the 55 40-footers that will be delivered this year.

The buses will indeed be 40 footers.

As for where they are coming from, they have been in discussions with New Flyer for several months now, although there is no word as yet who will be supplying them. If it was New Flyer, they may indeed be leased, but built to TTC spec.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The buses will indeed be 40 footers.

As for where they are coming from, they have been in discussions with New Flyer for several months now, although there is no word as yet who will be supplying them. If it was New Flyer, they may indeed be leased, but built to TTC spec.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Why would the TTC lease rather than purchase?

And do you know what model the TTC is most likely to go with?

 

[Electrify]

I'm with DDA on this. At Tue current break even point, let alone the future one, if you have another mode of transport then the Metropass is simply not worth it. If we simply the math to 40 work trips a month (4 weeks with 5 workdays each), then you need to make about 2 stopovers a week to make it cost effective!

Of course the real question is if one should be paying a full fare for these extra rides to begin with. On a frequent and heavily used system like the TTC, short return trips within two hours or making brief stopovers tax the system very little, since the fixed costs are already set. Ask yourself which is more costly to provide: Someone taking a bus from the airport to the subway, going across to Kennedy and transferring to the SRT, then taking at least one other bus to the zoo; or someone taking the streetcar a mile to pick up something quick in Chinatown, and making a return trip?

 

[nfitz]

Why would the TTC lease rather than purchase?

Much quicker delivery.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How is it quicker delivery? Aren't they custom built to TTC spec?

 

[dowlingm]

As for where they are coming from, they have been in discussions with New Flyer for several months now

I guess the TTC and NF got past the issue which lost NF the 40 foot order in 2014?

New Flyer stated an exception on Document 00300 – Form of Proposal, indicating that the “Vendor Cross Reference Parts List” would not be provided to the TTC as required in the contract documents under general condition clauses GC40 – Contract Delivery Schedule and Build/Delivery Schedule and GC46 – Contract Deliverables. Instead, details on a specific part would only be provided on a part by part basis by New Flyer to the TTC and only in the event that a part requested by the TTC has not been received within two working days and a Bus is out of service due a specific part not being available.

...

The exception stated by New Flyer was reviewed with the Legal Department, Legal and Claims Section and the Fairness Monitor and New Flyer’s Proposal was deemed to be non-compliant as they did not pass all 7 mandatory requirements. A “Fail” was given for item 1, which indicated no exceptions of a commercial nature stated in Document 00300 – Form of Proposal, of Step 2 of the evaluation process. Consequently, as New Flyer did not meet the requirements of Step 2 of the evaluation process, their proposal was not evaluated any further.

 

[drum118]

Metrolinx and TTC developing a plan to accelerate rollout of PRESTO
TORONTO: January 21, 2015 – Metrolinx and Toronto Transit Commission are pleased to announce that they are developing a plan that will allow transit riders to use the PRESTO fare card throughout the system a year ahead of schedule. Transit riders would be able to use their PRESTO cards on all subways, buses and streetcars by the end of 2016 making the TTC more convenient and accessible.
Subject to approvals, TTC and Metrolinx have developed the following program:

·Mobilizing TTC and Metrolinx resources and vendors to complete enabling work as quickly as possible.
·PRESTO will be available at 26 subway stations by July 2015, up from the current 15 stations.
·By the end of 2015 all legacy streetcars would have PRESTO devices installed on their front doors. Accomplishing this involves Metrolinx receiving support from the TTC to divert the equipment scheduled for the new streetcars, which have been delayed, to the existing, legacy streetcars.
·A plan to enable PRESTO on the TTC bus fleet is being developed with the TTC so that PRESTO cards can be used on all buses by the end of 2016.
·The TTC is also working to bring brand new fare gates to all TTC stations.
·Focusing the initial deployment on base PRESTO services currently available on the other transit services, and adding other functions, such as payment by credit and debit cards, to subsequent releases.
·The objective is to allow customers will be able to use PRESTO cards at all 69 TTC subway stations and throughout the entire TTC by the end of 2016.
·Metrolinx and the TTC are committed to ensuring that PRESTO is delivered across the TTC system as quickly as possible while maintaining quality and ensuring a positive customer experience.

This project is part of Metrolinx’s regional transportation plan to provide residents and businesses in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area with fast, convenient and integrated transit. Working through its divisions – PRESTO, GO Transit, and Union Pearson Express – Metrolinx is transforming the way the region moves.

-30-
Media contact:
Anne Marie Aikins
Manager, Media Relations
Metrolinx
(416) 202-5796


Brad Ross
Executive Director,
Corporate Communications
Toronto Transit Commission
416-206-3727

 

[ksun]

Does the $5.20 cover the car usage? What's the average cost per kilometre now ... pushing 50 cents? I guess if you live at Rosedale station it might make sense ...

Though who am I to talk ... I'll drive across town late-at-night (the Gardiner is magnificent when it's empty!) and pay to park ... because suddenly the driving is much faster, and the transit becomes less frequent (though extending the half-hour GO Lakeshore service later might tempt me away ...).

what about time? Is it worth anything?
Try to take transit from Eglinton/Don Mills to downtown, can easily take an hour. By car it is probably 15 minutes. What's your hourly salary, pushing $40 an hour ? You can calculate how much money you have saved. What about for two people?

and what about comfort? Does waiting for a bus for 15 minutes under minus 15C cost anything? TTC is not exactly famous for being reliable and punctual.