[flyinggoats]

Maybe because we shouldn't subsidize people's choice to have children. With children you are given myriads of subsidies and tax breaks. We don't need anymore especially when this is financed by levying another fare increase and a property tax increase to fund it. For a system that is constantly crying due to low funds, I don't see how eliminating fares for a segment of the population is going to fix it.

So you're saying it should be expensive for families to have children? In other words, we want to encourage families to have fewer children? That way when you're old, retired and sick, there will be a smaller population contributing to a tax system that pays for your healthcare. In reality, we need more children to keep our economy strong. More children will mean more skilled workers, more innovators, and more investors in the future.

 

[Filip]

So your in favour of charging them all $3 from birth? Should we also not subsidize people's choice to get old and charge them $3 too?

What about the subsidy of people's choices to buy and use cars downtown. Should restore the Vehicle Registration tax, and toll local roads? Perhaps a $20/trip charge for crossing Bathurst, the Don River, or Bloor Street?

And those Express buses, are way subsidized compared to regular services. Should we increase the fares on them, so the subsidy is closer to $1 a ride like the other routes?

You're disingenuously extrapolating. It is your choice to have children. I did not force you, therefore be prepared to pay the escalating costs of having a young one. Childless people (like myself) are subsidizing your children. And that is fine to a certain extent, we need children to have a society and to be human.. I'm not arguing against those tax breaks and subsidies, I fully agree with them.

The TTC, hell no. Ticket prices are already high and the Metropass cost is now unreasonably high to the point that a regular 9-5 office drone is no longer breaking even. You can afford the child fare until the kid turns 13.

Btw, I'm not sure where you got the $3 from birth, but I advocate keeping the status quo, ie: children fares.

I'll agree with you to a certain extent.

The reason I support this program is because it will be of great help to poorer families in the city. However, I don't think free fares should apply to families who aren't of lower income. They really don't need the break. But the bureaucracy to set this up may be so expensive that extending it to all families, regardless of income may be the less expensive option.

That said, I'm still really happy with this program. I know this will help lots of families who are struggling.

I agree with that, and I would take it one step further. If you are in social housing or accepting social assistance due to your income situation, you should have a card that gives you access to these privileges. Why let children ride free when their parents can easily afford it? Meanwhile, the rest of us are subsidizing this arrangement. I don't mind helping those in need, but not those who are just cheap.

 

[nfitz]

You can afford the child fare until the kid turns 13.

I certainly can. I keep a wad of them in my pocket, and I've already criticized Tory for killing the fare, instead of spending $7 million on increased service.

But really ... they are only getting $7 million? How much does it cost to distribute the things, etc. Seems more efficient to eliminate them.

Btw, I'm not sure where you got the $3 from birth, but I advocate keeping the status quo, ie: children fares.

Every other city in GTA is free under 6, while TTC was free under 2, and you advocate the status quo?

I wouldn't have done this - but it does simplify things a lot. And there's a lot of people who really can't afford it. They might have Metropass, but carting the kids everywhere is another story. The revenue loss is trivial.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The current Day (Family) Pass ($11.00) has the following conditions:

Family / Group

Family / Group passes are only available for use on Saturday, Sunday, or statutory holidays. Passes are valid from the date shown on the pass until 5:30 a.m. the next day.

1 adult and not more than 5 children/youths 19 years of age or under;

OR
​

2 adults and not more than 4 children/youths 19 years of age or under;

OR
​

2 adults.

That group will sure to get larger, especially since ALL those under 12 will not need to be included in the Family Pass. They maybe changing the conditions.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Transit Operator (Drivers) Recruitment website at this link says:

Due to the large number of applications received and under consideration for the Transit Operator (Driver) position, new applications are not being accepted at this time.

That may change after the budgets are approved or the budget process officially started.

 

[muller877]

The Transit Operator (Drivers) Recruitment website at this link says:



That may change after the budgets are approved or the budget process officially started.

So there are too many applicants for transit drivers. If the TTC lived outside of the public sector it would drive supply and demand economics. It means that all these new applicants think that it is a good job with good wages....so in the public sector (when there is not a union for most jobs) the salaries would go down.

This confirms that either the city needs to push hard in future union negotiations OR privatize the operational side of transit. Costs are too high

 

[LNahid2000]

So there are too many applicants for transit drivers. If the TTC lived outside of the public sector it would drive supply and demand economics. It means that all these new applicants think that it is a good job with good wages....so in the public sector (when there is not a union for most jobs) the salaries would go down.

Private sector. Also, if you privatize the operational side of transit, the difference between the public wage and the private wage will just go into the private corporation's pockets rather than the employee's pocket.

 

[ksun]

I'm not really sure how I feel about the announcement. Increased service and more route management is a no brainier but children under 12 for free infuriates me. What's even worse is the ridiculous cost of the metropass. With my three weeks vacation, stat holidays and expected sick days I can no longer break even. I don't use the TTC on the weekends as it is generally unreliable and parking is cheap.

Guess I'm switching to tokens. Seems counterproductive, no?

Tory offers this to make the fare increase sound less bad.

I think it makes no sense to offer free rides to kids. Half price, that would be reasonable. And like someone said, how would they know if a child is 12 or 13, or even 14? Why just kids? why not seniors? why not the low incomers? Why not the handicapped people?

And I agree now the metropass makes even less sense than before. It is worth 50.5 tokens now, from 49.5. TTC should just stop offering metropasses all together.

Additionally, I think they should charge strollers during rush hours (if they are not doing it now).

 

[ksun]

So you're saying it should be expensive for families to have children? In other words, we want to encourage families to have fewer children? That way when you're old, retired and sick, there will be a smaller population contributing to a tax system that pays for your healthcare. In reality, we need more children to keep our economy strong. More children will mean more skilled workers, more innovators, and more investors in the future.

false logic.
No one is making it expensive for families to have children. They are simply paying for whatever everyone is paying - their fair share. It is not like we are taxing people for having kids, in which case your argument will start to make sense.

And in all honestly, not a single family will decide whether they will have kids based on if the kids can have free TTC fare under the age of 12 or not. Transit fare is a negligible cost in the grand picture of raising a child. People do budget how much it cost but they never have a line saying "public transit cost for my son". Yes, we want more kids but offer free fare will do nothing to achieve that, unless you can prove there is a correlation, your argument is completely groundless.

 

[dowlingm]

Tory offers this to make the fare increase sound less bad.

I think it makes no sense to offer free rides to kids. Half price, that would be reasonable. And like someone said, how would they know if a child is 12 or 13, or even 14? Why just kids? why not seniors? why not the low incomers? Why not the handicapped people?

1. Kids already got 75pc discount on cash fare. At half price, you're proposing a 100pc increase for kids on what they pay now.
2. At 13, the cash fare goes from 75c to $2.00. Operators are already supposed to be requesting ID from those who look too old.
3. Persons with disabilities already ride free on TTC (edit - this was a misreading of the page here. In fact they must pay a fare but their support person does not have to pay one too). https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Support_Person_Card/index.jsp

 

[W. K. Lis]

Since children under 12 will be riding free, why not change the conditions for the weekend Family Pass from:

1 adult and not more than 5 children/youths 19 years of age or under;

OR​

2 adults and not more than 4 children/youths 19 years of age or under;

OR​

2 adults.

to:

1 adult and not more than 5 youths 12 to 19 years of age or under, or seniors 65 or older;
​

OR​

2 adults and not more than 4 youths 12 to 19 years of age or under, or seniors 65 or older;
​

OR​

2 adults.
​

 

[nfitz]

At 13, the cash fare goes from 75c to $2.00. Operators are already supposed to be requesting ID from those who look too old

How can that be when TTC says only those from 16 to 19 need to carry ID?

 

[nfitz]

Since children under 12 will be riding free, why not change the conditions for the weekend Family Pass from:



to:

1 adult and not more than 5 youths 12 to 19 years of age or under, or seniors 65 or older;
​

OR​

2 adults and not more than 4 youths 12 to 19 years of age or under, or seniors 65 or older;
​

OR​

2 adults.
​

One reason is because 12-year old will also be riding free.

But generally, that works!

 

[W. K. Lis]

That way the parents, kids, and grandparents will all together be able to attend the next Fordfest... if held on a weekend.

 

[Electrify]

Personally I would have kept the child's fare, raised cash fares to $3.25 and tokens to $2.75, and frozen Metropass prices. The reason for the latter is to try and bring down the break even point on passes, which will be necessary for two hour transfers to be financially viable for the TTC. One of the reasons why pass prices are so high is because the TTC likes to capitalize on low cost rides like short round trips and stopovers, which they will not be able to do once this takes effect.

The only rationale for having it at this price that I can think of is that once Presto takes effect, the "convenience" factor of a pass to cover these extra trips will be lost. So in order to continue to gouge these folks who may not even use the system a full 50 times a month as is, they will instead make sure to charge for each and every ride possible.

As for the 50 new buses, are these all new buses, or just (re)announcing the purchase for 40' buses from Nova they already made?