[nfitz]

Just looking over at LostRivers.ca there was and presumably still is a river (tunneled or blocked)

With a name like "stream" and being so short, I wouldn't call it a river. And if it was simply filled in, it's no longer there. I doubt there's anything particularly tunnelled, and the storm sewer simply moves whatever water would have once flowed. Given the large buildings in the source area, the drainage for those buildings probably would have eliminated the stream, even if it had been left alone.

Interesting figure though! I've copied it below:

 

[W. K. Lis]

There was a story on ‘lost’ rivers reappearing, last year, in The Star. See link.

There used to be a network of little streams in Toronto’s downtown core, each barely more than a kilometre long, with the smallest extending just 250 metres. Dry most of the year, the streams would come to life during rainstorms or after a snow melt, leading the run-off into Lake Ontario.

Some come roaring back to life, but Helen Mills, founder of Lost Rivers, which charts and offers tours highlighting those forgotten streams, said some routes have been so disturbed by development there’s nowhere left for the water to go.

...some routes have been so disturbed by development there’s nowhere left for the water to go.

“All those myriads of little channels are no longer there in the same way,†Mills said. “We’ve turned the lost rivers into sewers and redirected the water in a thousand different ways to get it to where we want it to go, so instead of there being a surface of soft forest, with layers, that’s absorbing the water and holding it in, there are hard surfaces and the water runs off very, very quickly.â

 

[TheTigerMaster]

From TTC Surface Ridership (2012), I've calculated the TTC's most profitable surface routes. I calculated it by: (operating costs per day)/(customers per day). Because of our transfer system and fare structure, calculating the profitability of the routes would be difficult, if not impossible, without more customer analytics, but this should give a good idea of which routes are winners and losers:

Streetcar routes had an average cost per customer per day of $1.79
Bus routes had an average cost per customer per day of $2.44

Most profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
22 Coxwell - $1.21
64 Main - $1.28
65 Parliament - $1.43
81 Thornecliffe Park - $1.45
126 Christie - $1.50
90 Vaughan - $1.53
63 Ossington - $1.54
35 Jane - $1.55
510 Spadina and 509 Harbourfrount - $1.56
94 Wellesley - $1.64

With the exception of 35 Jane, all of the most profitable routes run south of Eglinton, west of Victoria Park and east of Ossington.

Least profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
99 Arrow Road - $13.85 (Doesn't connect with rapid transit)
107 Keele North - $12.07 (Route runs mostly in York Region)
171 Mt.Dennis - $9.35 (Doesen't connect with rapid transit)
97 Yonge - $4.82 (Duplicates Line 1)
80 Queensway - $4.81
169 Huntingwood and 10 Van Horne - $4.63
502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Rd - $4.60
115 Silver Hills - $4.50
98 Willowdale-Senlac - $4.47
120 Calvington - $4.45

 

[Wrenkin]

It's funny that 22 is so profitable given that it essentially operates as an after-hours replacement service for the 502/503, one of the worst performers, but unless you're trying to get downtown at 7:30 in the morning the 22 is actually much more frequent, even on Sundays.

 

[Johnny Au]

From TTC Surface Ridership (2012), I've calculated the TTC's most profitable surface routes. I calculated it by: (operating costs per day)/(customers per day). Because of our transfer system and fare structure, calculating the profitability of the routes would be difficult, if not impossible, without more customer analytics, but this should give a good idea of which routes are winners and losers:

Streetcar routes had an average cost per customer per day of $1.79
Bus routes had an average cost per customer per day of $2.44

Most profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
22 Coxwell - $1.21
64 Main - $1.28
65 Parliament - $1.43
81 Thornecliffe Park - $1.45
126 Christie - $1.50
90 Vaughan - $1.53
63 Ossington - $1.54
35 Jane - $1.55
510 Spadina and 509 Harbourfrount - $1.56
94 Wellesley - $1.64

With the exception of 35 Jane, all of the most profitable routes run south of Eglinton, west of Victoria Park and east of Ossington.

Least profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
99 Arrow Road - $13.85 (Doesn't connect with rapid transit)
107 Keele North - $12.07 (Route runs mostly in York Region)
171 Mt.Dennis - $9.35 (Doesen't connect with rapid transit)
97 Yonge - $4.82 (Duplicates Line 1)
80 Queensway - $4.81
169 Huntingwood and 10 Van Horne - $4.63
502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Rd - $4.60
115 Silver Hills - $4.50
98 Willowdale-Senlac - $4.47
120 Calvington - $4.45

63 Ossington does run west of Ossington, given that this route serves both Liberty Village and Oakwood Avenue. Same goes with 90 Vaughan (its 90B branch runs as far west as one block east of Dufferin at Northcliffe).

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

63 Ossington does run west of Ossington, given that this route serves both Liberty Village and Oakwood Avenue. Same goes with 90 Vaughan (its 90B branch runs as far west as one block east of Dufferin at Northcliffe).

Thanks for the precision Johnny, but I think it was more of a general area statement.

 

[Electrify]

Surprised that the Keele North is so costly. When I was at York, I sometimes took a Major Mackenzie bus to Keele and took a Keele bus from there (either the 107 or YRT 22A). Despite its limited frequency, it was sometimes standing room only. That said, not many people get on or off between Rutherford and York University, and with YRT's scheduled bunching, many instances it was timed to arrive or depart right alongside said 22A, thus cannibalizing its potential ridership.

 

[muller877]

From TTC Surface Ridership (2012), I've calculated the TTC's most profitable surface routes. I calculated it by: (operating costs per day)/(customers per day). Because of our transfer system and fare structure, calculating the profitability of the routes would be difficult, if not impossible, without more customer analytics, but this should give a good idea of which routes are winners and losers:

Streetcar routes had an average cost per customer per day of $1.79
Bus routes had an average cost per customer per day of $2.44

Most profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
22 Coxwell - $1.21
64 Main - $1.28
65 Parliament - $1.43
81 Thornecliffe Park - $1.45
126 Christie - $1.50
90 Vaughan - $1.53
63 Ossington - $1.54
35 Jane - $1.55
510 Spadina and 509 Harbourfrount - $1.56
94 Wellesley - $1.64

With the exception of 35 Jane, all of the most profitable routes run south of Eglinton, west of Victoria Park and east of Ossington.

Least profitable:
Route - Cost per customer per day
99 Arrow Road - $13.85 (Doesn't connect with rapid transit)
107 Keele North - $12.07 (Route runs mostly in York Region)
171 Mt.Dennis - $9.35 (Doesen't connect with rapid transit)
97 Yonge - $4.82 (Duplicates Line 1)
80 Queensway - $4.81
169 Huntingwood and 10 Van Horne - $4.63
502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Rd - $4.60
115 Silver Hills - $4.50
98 Willowdale-Senlac - $4.47
120 Calvington - $4.45

Great work. It shows us that it can be done and hopefully with Presto and some analytics TTC can have more refined numbers over time. Is it possible for you to post your excel with all the routes included? And any idea the cost/rider on the subway?

It's interesting to note that most of the profitable lines are short (other then Jane). Do most riders on these lines transfer to the subway (and thus the revenue is lower than a no-transfer line)?

 

[DSC]

Great work. It shows us that it can be done and hopefully with Presto and some analytics TTC can have more refined numbers over time. Is it possible for you to post your excel with all the routes included? And any idea the cost/rider on the subway?

It's interesting to note that most of the profitable lines are short (other then Jane). Do most riders on these lines transfer to the subway (and thus the revenue is lower than a no-transfer line)?

Even if one is only looking at comparisons (due to the very real problem of allocating costs to transfers etc), the problem surely is that the TTC's "customer counts' are often very old and not necessarily representative. The figures you give are dated 2012 but some were from much earlier As they say, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out')

 

[Adjei]

Don PeatVerified account
‏@reporterdonpeat
#TTC commissioner Alan Heisey says the #TTC should have made subway extension stations "cheap and cheerful" rather than good architecture

See the kind of thinking we have in this city and at the TTC..No wonder the city is filled with rusting hydro poles and terrible public realm..

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Even if one is only looking at comparisons (due to the very real problem of allocating costs to transfers etc), the problem surely is that the TTC's "customer counts' are often very old and not necessarily representative. The figures you give are dated 2012 but some were from much earlier As they say, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out')

The TTC says they update the figures every year, but the most recent one on their website is from 2012. Maybe I'll do some digging around to see if I can get more recent numbers.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Its like any agency. They record every year, but don't necessarily publish every year. MTO is the same way with their AADT numbers, they record every year but the most recent figures are from 2010.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Great work. It shows us that it can be done and hopefully with Presto and some analytics TTC can have more refined numbers over time. Is it possible for you to post your excel with all the routes included? And any idea the cost/rider on the subway?

Here's my CSV file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/slb9l1ulqt2xape/TTC Surface Cost.csv?dl=0

Any spreadsheet viewer should be able to open it.

The TTC hasn't published any data on the cost to operate each subway route. I have a suspicion that this is to avoid disparaging the Sheppard Subway. Royson James had to fight to get a report released (likely though the freedom of information act), that revealed for the first time exactly how poorly the subway was performing. Steve Munro goes into detail about this report on his blog


2011.03 Transit Technology Summary and Background
2011.03 Transit Technology Table

The TTC does report the ridership of each subway line, but the cost of operations for each line is not included.

 

[44 North]

Don PeatVerified account
‏@reporterdonpeat
#TTC commissioner Alan Heisey says the #TTC should have made subway extension stations "cheap and cheerful" rather than good architecture

See the kind of thinking we have in this city and at the TTC..No wonder the city is filled with rusting hydro poles and terrible public realm..

I’d say it’s more that we have a shabby public realm because we squander scarce capital on things like lavish and extravagant stations (instead of sensibly going with affordable and attractive options). I'm not advocating a narrow hole in the ground or anything. But if these stations were built more like, say, Dupont - I'm sure we could've saved a tidy sum.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The lavish stations had nothing to do with the overruns. But I suppose that's not what the public wants to here.