[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think someone mentioned the drawback for nighttime closure is the relatively higher proportion of prep time (constant) vs. actual work time.

On another note - from the Star:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...that-train-the-ttc-has-69000-reasons-why.html

One stat that has the TTC worried is an unexplained rise in trespassing delays. Time lost to such incidents increased 43 per cent over three years to almost 25 hours in 2016. There were 162 reported occurrences of trespassing last year alone.

Palmer said people go onto the tracks for different reasons, including to urinate, to retrieve something they dropped, or on a dare.

I also recall an uptick in trespassing of late anecdotally - especially at certain stations.

“That could be urine, it could be feces, it could be vomit,” said Palmer. “New Year’s Eve … we had extra crews on just cleaning up vomit and nothing else. Pretty much every train that went to Finch had vomit in one or more cars.”

Another instance of people unable to govern themselves properly.

AoD

 

[DSCToronto]

I think someone mentioned the drawback for nighttime closure is the relatively higher proportion of prep time (constant) vs. actual work time.

AoD

Yes, it has been explained often. Most recently at: https://www.ttc.ca/Coupler/Editorial/Andys_24hrs_editorials/2017_January_20.jsp
and

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commiss...way Closures 2016 Year in Review and 201.pdf

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, it has been explained often. Most recently at: https://www.ttc.ca/Coupler/Editorial/Andys_24hrs_editorials/2017_January_20.jsp
and

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/January_18/Reports/10_Presentation Subway Closures 2016 Year in Review and 201.pdf

Having said that, there is no reason to take it as it is - perhaps they should look at how that process can be streamlined.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

Having said that, there is no reason to take it as it is - perhaps they should look at how that process can be streamlined.

I'd wonder if it's worth shuffling the closure hours - for example, operate the subway for two extra hours on Friday and Saturday nights and close it 1 or 2 hours earlier Sunday-Wednesday or Sunday-Thursday.

 

[drum118]

Having said that, there is no reason to take it as it is - perhaps they should look at how that process can be streamlined.

AoD

Biggest issue is getting the work trains to/from the yard to/from the work area and there is no way around it.

Any system will look at ways of speeding up of moving equipment to/from work areas long ago. How work is done could be looked at to see if there any room for improvement.

Removing the ceiling slats in the stations was one area were work was speed up, as well not having to replace them after the work was done.

Unless you going to cut corners, next to no areas to get work done sooner/faster than now.

Safety is #1 at all times.

 

[44 North]

Fair enough, and reading what DSC has posted the benefits of weekend work becomes more clear. Apparently there's only a three hour night window to work, and each day of closure is the equivalent to five weeks of night work.

But extrapolating on that, maybe we should go extreme. If one weekend is equivalent to ten weeks of night work, then perhaps one or two weeks can be equivalent to an entire year of weekend disruptions. Now, obviously the surface routes couldn't handle the weekday loads. But with some extreme coordination with Transportation Services and TPS, as well as GO/Metrolinx, then perhaps we could make do? Like tearing off a bandaid.

 

[DSCToronto]

Fair enough, and reading what DSC has posted the benefits of weekend work becomes more clear. Apparently there's only a three hour night window to work, and each day of closure is the equivalent to five weeks of night work.

But extrapolating on that, maybe we should go extreme. If one weekend is equivalent to ten weeks of night work, then perhaps one or two weeks can be equivalent to an entire year of weekend disruptions. Now, obviously the surface routes couldn't handle the weekday loads. But with some extreme coordination with Transportation Services and TPS, as well as GO/Metrolinx, then perhaps we could make do? Like tearing off a bandaid.

I imagine the number of qualified staff is limited and though they can manage to work very long hours of overtime for a weekend they might well not be as keen to work very long hours for one or two weeks?

 

[smallspy]

That's not what the streetcar instructors say when I asked them. I was told they aren't design for traffic speed. The stopping is a TTC part is a protocol.

And did you ask them about the two accidents that happened?

Again - they've been using the exact same hardware for over 100 years. What makes you think that all of a sudden that they aren't suitable for those kinds of speeds?

have they also looked at battery powered work carts so they can turn off the 3rd rail sooner every night? So there can be more actual work time.

Most of the work equipment has an alternate power source - be it batteries or a diesel generator - to allow for operation when the traction power is turned off.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[kotsy]

I'd wonder if it's worth shuffling the closure hours - for example, operate the subway for two extra hours on Friday and Saturday nights and close it 1 or 2 hours earlier Sunday-Wednesday or Sunday-Thursday.

I've been saying this for years. I don't think there's a need to run it past midnight during the week but shutting it down before last call on the weekends has always seemed absurd to me.

 

[dowlingm]

I've been saying this for years. I don't think there's a need to run it past midnight during the week but shutting it down before last call on the weekends has always seemed absurd to me.

How often have you travelled on the subway during the times you are suggesting it be shut?

 

[amnesiajune]

How often have you travelled on the subway during the times you are suggesting it be shut?

I do it sometimes. It's normally pretty empty. You can replace the subway with bus service and it would be just as fast - it's usually 20-25 minutes for the 320 to get from Bloor to Finch.

 

[Megaton327]

I've been saying this for years. I don't think there's a need to run it past midnight during the week but shutting it down before last call on the weekends has always seemed absurd to me.

How often have you travelled on the subway during the times you are suggesting it be shut?

I do it sometimes. It's normally pretty empty. You can replace the subway with bus service and it would be just as fast - it's usually 20-25 minutes for the 320 to get from Bloor to Finch.

It's an intriguing idea, for sure. I can certainly see how a smaller number of longer, uninterrupted work periods are more useful than more, shorter ones.

I'd love to see the TTC do a detailed study of current ridership at those hours every day of the week/likely changes from the shorter+longer hours, detailed models for typical traffic/travel times for buses at those hours, costs and emissions to run shuttle buses instead of the subway, and the estimated benefit to construction.

Edit: tweeted about the idea to @Bradttc and already got a response: "We plan to revisit subway hours once we get signals and other infrastructure upgrades complete" - kind of defeats the purpose of using it to get signals/other upgrades complete faster, but then again, construction isn't a short-term-only reality.

 

[nfitz]

I do it sometimes. It's normally pretty empty. You can replace the subway with bus service and it would be just as fast - it's usually 20-25 minutes for the 320 to get from Bloor to Finch.

Maybe the Yonge line is that quiet (though I doubt it). But at midnight the Bloor-Danforth eastbound isn't what I'd call empty. Nor is Bloor Street going to allow for similar travel times. Would be a disaster.

Might work better in suburbia. Could probably stop Line 1 at Eglinton at midnight, and no one would notice for years. But even the bus from Eglinton to Finch would only do 25 km/hr, compared to 42 km/hr that the subway train does north of Eglinton with those long distances between stations!

 

[dowlingm]

It's an intriguing idea, for sure. I can certainly see how a smaller number of longer, uninterrupted work periods are more useful than more, shorter ones.

I'd love to see the TTC do a detailed study of current ridership at those hours every day of the week/likely changes from the shorter+longer hours, detailed models for typical traffic/travel times for buses at those hours, costs and emissions to run shuttle buses instead of the subway, and the estimated benefit to construction.

Edit: tweeted about the idea to @Bradttc and already got a response: "We plan to revisit subway hours once we get signals and other infrastructure upgrades complete" - kind of defeats the purpose of using it to get signals/other upgrades complete faster, but then again, construction isn't a short-term-only reality.

I think it's interesting that the TTC has not tried closing individual stations like they did to catch up when Pape's schedule went really sideways. Might have really helped at Coxwell, my home station, when Easier Access, Presto and bus loop construction was going on concurrently.

 

[Amare]

Somewhat related to the current conversation, the TTC seriously has to revisit it's shuttle bus policy because this is out of hand and ridiculous; a signal problem that has been going on for 5 hours is causing an hour of extra travel time for half of the Bloor-Danforth line (between Yonge and Kipling dont mind the silly posting on the TTC's site). The problem is so bad to the point they are turning back every other train at Dundas West so it compounds an already bad situation. To put it into perspective, it took me an hour to travel from Spadina to Runnymede, after which i just gave up and took the bus from Runnymede.

Dundas West after train being dumped:

The TTC's false claim of the affected stations and travel time: