[amnesiajune]

The problem is that shuttle buses during rush hour means less service on other routes (it generally means this no matter the time, but there are spare buses and some available drivers during off-peak hours). The TTC's policy is that they only pull in shuttle buses when there's a complete outage, and that's far beyond what most transit systems do. In any other city you just wait for service to be restored or find some way to get around with regularly-scheduled bus service.

It's not really cost-effective to buy a fleet of extra buses just in case there's a problem during rush hour. Those buses would have to be spread all over the city and during rush hour many would take 60+ minutes to get to wherever they're needed. There would also have to be a fleet of drivers being paid $32/hour to sit around, just in case there's a delay somewhere in the system.

 

[Steve X]

The problem is that shuttle buses during rush hour means less service on other routes (it generally means this no matter the time, but there are spare buses and some available drivers during off-peak hours). The TTC's policy is that they only pull in shuttle buses when there's a complete outage, and that's far beyond what most transit systems do. In any other city you just wait for service to be restored or find some way to get around with regularly-scheduled bus service.

It's not really cost-effective to buy a fleet of extra buses just in case there's a problem during rush hour. Those buses would have to be spread all over the city and during rush hour many would take 60+ minutes to get to wherever they're needed. There would also have to be a fleet of drivers being paid $32/hour to sit around, just in case there's a delay somewhere in the system.

Not to mention where they are going to build a few garages and where are all the cops coming from to direct traffic to allow the buses to get through congested areas. Even if they do build a new downtown garage it would be for replacing streetcars oppose to doing nothing 99% of the time.

The problem with TTC is the lack of knowledge of surface routes. If TTC has new streetcars on the 512 St Clair (which they still don't yet thanks to BBD), they should have public announcements to recommend people to use the 512 and have a few gap cars. It would be faster for people to use the 512 to Keele and take the bus south (if the leave near Dupont) than for them to wait for trains to slowly creep through. The lack of a decent map showing the 512 on ROW plus people have this mentality of not backtracking really isn't helping.

Once Eglinton LRT opens, it will appear on the map allowing people to make better decisions.

 

[picard102]

More bellyaching about Wilson parking.

 

[mrgrieves]

More bellyaching about Wilson parking.

This is going to have a big impact on a lot of commuters in the area, from the look of the drawing most of the lot will be closed. Its a shame they couldn't wait until the subway extension to Vaughan opened, as many commuters who park at Wilson are expected to park at the new stations once they open. Unfortunately bus service is not great in the area, so for many people it makes much more sense to pay $5 to park and save a lot of time they would otherwise spend waiting for a bus. The problem is, once you take away the parking, then it makes sense for many people to just drive downtown...that becomes the best alternative. Esp when Yorkdale TTC lot is now at $7.

What puzzles me is that Pasternak made a big stink when another lot at Wilson closed in December (to be developed into big box retail of all things), and at council proposed studying the parking situation at TTC stations. Now all of a sudden it seems like he didn't even know this partial closure of the Wilson main lot was happening.

 

[picard102]

This is going to have a big impact on a lot of commuters in the area, from the look of the drawing most of the lot will be closed. Its a shame they couldn't wait until the subway extension to Vaughan opened, as many commuters who park at Wilson are expected to park at the new stations once they open. Unfortunately bus service is not great in the area, so for many people it makes much more sense to pay $5 to park and save a lot of time they would otherwise spend waiting for a bus. The problem is, once you take away the parking, then it makes sense for many people to just drive downtown...that becomes the best alternative. Esp when Yorkdale TTC lot is now at $7.

What puzzles me is that Pasternak made a big stink when another lot at Wilson closed in December (to be developed into big box retail of all things), and at council proposed studying the parking situation at TTC stations. Now all of a sudden it seems like he didn't even know this partial closure of the Wilson main lot was happening.

The bus network in this area is pretty good I find. It's not unreasonable to think that someone could easily take the bus to the station, at least within the wilson heights community.

The faster these lots are re-developed the better.

 

[mrgrieves]

The bus network in this area is pretty good I find. It's not unreasonable to think that someone could easily take the bus to the station, at least within the wilson heights community.

The faster these lots are re-developed the better.

But do you think big box retail is a better use of land than allowing 610 parking spots (the amount of TTC spots that were replaced last December when a lot was re-developed), which potentially allows 1,000 commuters (its not all single occupancy) to get to work or school each day? Not all of the lots get re-developed into high density residential.

 

[jje1000]

This is one of the better answers I've heard to the "why is my transit system suddenly a disaster" question.

https://twitter.com/martinepowers/status/872206145363914753

 

[picard102]

But do you think big box retail is a better use of land than allowing 610 parking spots

Yes. Employment land use in the neighbourhood is important too.

 

[amnesiajune]

The problem with TTC is the lack of knowledge of surface routes. If TTC has new streetcars on the 512 St Clair (which they still don't yet thanks to BBD), they should have public announcements to recommend people to use the 512 and have a few gap cars.

I'm curious if there's any reason why the TTC doesn't show some connections on the subway map. If the 192 can go on there (as a connection between the subway and the airport), why not throw in routes like the 185, 186, 190, 196 (soon to be 84E), 199, 510 and 512? No need to show stops, just show the red lines connecting subway stations.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I'm curious if there's any reason why the TTC doesn't show some connections on the subway map. If the 192 can go on there (as a connection between the subway and the airport), why not throw in routes like the 185, 186, 190, 196 (soon to be 84E), 199, 510 and 512? No need to show stops, just show the red lines connecting subway stations.

I believe they're not "rapid" enough.

 

[DSCToronto]

I'm curious if there's any reason why the TTC doesn't show some connections on the subway map. If the 192 can go on there (as a connection between the subway and the airport), why not throw in routes like the 185, 186, 190, 196 (soon to be 84E), 199, 510 and 512? No need to show stops, just show the red lines connecting subway stations.

It's a slippery slope once you start listing non-subways on the subway map. I think listing the Airport Rocket is a good idea as this will help visitors arriving/departing from Pearson but once you start adding other surface routes the map just becomes too messy and which routes do you include? If you want a SYSTEM map then you should use the SYSTEM MAP!

 

[Leo_Chan]

It's a slippery slope once you start listing non-subways on the subway map. I think listing the Airport Rocket is a good idea as this will help visitors arriving/departing from Pearson but once you start adding other surface routes the map just becomes too messy and which routes do you include? If you want a SYSTEM map then you should use the SYSTEM MAP!

They should release/make a Subway and Rapid Transit Map that includes Subways. SRT, LRTs, and Rocket Express routes. It would be good as an in-between of the Subway and the System maps.

 

[Steve X]

I'm curious if there's any reason why the TTC doesn't show some connections on the subway map. If the 192 can go on there (as a connection between the subway and the airport), why not throw in routes like the 185, 186, 190, 196 (soon to be 84E), 199, 510 and 512? No need to show stops, just show the red lines connecting subway stations.

Too many lines makes the subway map look like a mess. The recent customer service program has clean up the map from all the useless info like addresses of each station.

What they need to a "Subway closure alternative routing map". They should post one at every subway station including platform, concourse and non fare paid areas. This map should so all major routes, express/rocket routes and best detours in case of a subway closure. The routes should be on the frequent network. Ideally it should include travel times so customers know what to expect.

This isn't going to work for every station. Kipling to Old Mill are very limited to options. The point isn't to include roues like the 30 Lambton from Kipling Station cause there is no way 1,000 riders could rush that bus considering its infrequency. Either way, if you're stuck at Kipling during a delay, you are pretty screwed. GO runs only morning peak period and the closes frequent east-west route is the 32 Eglinton West which is a good 10 minute ride from the station. Crosstown West would have to open before that would become an alternative. Other options include taking the 44/188 down to The Queensway and the take the infrequent 80A to Keele Station or to the 501 at Lake Shore.

From Keele to Yonge, the 512 exists. From Broadview to Main, there is the 62 and 87. Streetcars make a good alternative outside of rush hour. The 25/185 are alternatives to the Yonge line. They all can be on an emergency subway closure map.

 

[DSCToronto]

They should release/make a Subway and Rapid Transit Map that includes Subways. SRT, LRTs, and Rocket Express routes. It would be good as an in-between of the Subway and the System maps.

As well demonstrated here, the TTC has trouble keeping its information up to date and expecting them to produce and update many versions of maps is unreasonable and a sure-fire recipe for inconsistent information being given. Better they spend time and $$ on making the information they DO produce accurate and clear. I think it is reasonable to put the Airport Rocket on the subway map for reasons stated above and agree that if there are subway closures they need to do a better job with providing information on alternative routings for those who cannot understand the big System Map. )Or maybe just work on making the big map clearer!)

 

[W. K. Lis]

Too many lines makes the subway map look like a mess. The recent customer service program has clean up the map from all the useless info like addresses of each station.

What they need to a "Subway closure alternative routing map". They should post one at every subway station including platform, concourse and non fare paid areas. This map should so all major routes, express/rocket routes and best detours in case of a subway closure. The routes should be on the frequent network. Ideally it should include travel times so customers know what to expect.

This isn't going to work for every station. Kipling to Old Mill are very limited to options. The point isn't to include roues like the 30 Lambton from Kipling Station cause there is no way 1,000 riders could rush that bus considering its infrequency. Either way, if you're stuck at Kipling during a delay, you are pretty screwed. GO runs only morning peak period and the closes frequent east-west route is the 32 Eglinton West which is a good 10 minute ride from the station. Crosstown West would have to open before that would become an alternative. Other options include taking the 44/188 down to The Queensway and the take the infrequent 80A to Keele Station or to the 501 at Lake Shore.

From Keele to Yonge, the 512 exists. From Broadview to Main, there is the 62 and 87. Streetcars make a good alternative outside of rush hour. The 25/185 are alternatives to the Yonge line. They all can be on an emergency subway closure map.

From the TTC Service Standards, at this link:

The TTC operates two types of express bus services: Tier 1 and Tier 2 express bus services.

Tier 1:
Tier 1 express services are limited stop bus services that are designed to complement the rapid transit network and provide frequent and faster service on high-demand bus corridors with major urban nodes. These routes operate at a minimum frequency of ten minutes or better on weekdays from 6:00 am - 10:00 pm and fifteen minutes or better on weekends from 8:00 am - 7:00 pm.

Tier 2:
Tier 2 express services are designed to provide frequent and faster service on busy bus corridors generally during the weekday peak periods. These routes operate at a minimum frequency of fifteen minutes or better on weekdays from 6:00 am - 9:00 am and from 3:00 pm – 7:00 pm.
​

If we include express bus routes on the maps, they should be just the Tier 1 express buses.