[smallspy]

Finally saw a window LED working. Line 2 to Kennedy.

The ones on the SRT and Sheppard Line work all of the time - but that's because it's virtually impossible for the signs to be incorrect.

As far as I know, they still haven't resolved the issue on the T1s, and they're only now getting ready to install the updated control hardware on the TRs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Neutrino]

The newer Nova buses - ones with USB outlets - have dashcams. Is this part of the VISION system or just general safety improvements?

 

[Richard White]

The newer Nova buses - ones with USB outlets - have dashcams. Is this part of the VISION system or just general safety improvements?

I was under the impression that the dashcams were part of some dispute with ATU 113. What I've been hearing from operators is that the union is concerned about the cams being used against the operators in the same fashion as the original camera installation.

My understanding is that the ATU is concerned the TTC would use dashcams to pin the operators with unsafe driving, collisions etc. My philosophy on the matter is that they are an invaluable asset.

About a year ago my father was doing the 135 when someone made an unsafe lane change directly in front of the bus. There was no choice but to go into the back of the Toyota that cut the bus off since they had no ability to stop in time. There was no dashcam in this particular bus and the driver of the Toyota attempted to nail my father for careless driving. Thank god for witnesses who saw the guy go from stopped in the curb lane to pulling in front of a bus without looking.

 

[Voltz]

The newer Nova buses - ones with USB outlets - have dashcams. Is this part of the VISION system or just general safety improvements?

That I've noticed, the NOVA buses already have dash cams, even without the new Vision system or USB outlets.

 

[Neutrino]

Ah ok, I understand. I thought this was part of the VISION system. Can dashcams be integrated with route management systems?

 

[smallspy]

I was under the impression that the dashcams were part of some dispute with ATU 113. What I've been hearing from operators is that the union is concerned about the cams being used against the operators in the same fashion as the original camera installation.

Not one of the security cameras onboard the vehicles are pointed at the driver.

That I've noticed, the NOVA buses already have dash cams, even without the new Vision system or USB outlets.

All of the buses from 8720 and newer have dashcams installed from the factory.

Ah ok, I understand. I thought this was part of the VISION system. Can dashcams be integrated with route management systems?

If they were wired into the VISION system, in theory they could be. But as I understand it they are wired into the security camera system, and thus that information is only available as a download after the fact.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Richard White]

Not one of the security cameras onboard the vehicles are pointed at the driver.



All of the buses from 8720 and newer have dashcams installed from the factory.



If they were wired into the VISION system, in theory they could be. But as I understand it they are wired into the security camera system, and thus that information is only available as a download after the fact.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

No but with the original installations the dispute was that they could be used to pin the drivers with things they did not know they did. The union was concerned at the time that they were nanny cams as opposed to being for security. This is why there are no cameras pointed near the drivers and one of the reasons the union got assurances only TPS would look at the footage IF an incident occurs.

 

[smallspy]

No but with the original installations the dispute was that they could be used to pin the drivers with things they did not know they did. The union was concerned at the time that they were nanny cams as opposed to being for security. This is why there are no cameras pointed near the drivers and one of the reasons the union got assurances only TPS would look at the footage IF an incident occurs.

The original concerns about the cameras were many (8? 10?) years ago - and all of their concerns were dealt with fairly at that time by protocols agreed to by both the TTC and the Union. The only change since then is that supervisors have the ability to review footage as well in the event of an incident not requiring TPS.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Neutrino]

I've also seen little plastic tabs shielding the driver from the camera.

 

[Richard White]

The original concerns about the cameras were many (8? 10?) years ago - and all of their concerns were dealt with fairly at that time by protocols agreed to by both the TTC and the Union. The only change since then is that supervisors have the ability to review footage as well in the event of an incident not requiring TPS.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Right now the concern is that they could be nailed with careless driving, unsafe operation of a motor vehicle etc based on the dash cam footage. Yes it is only reviewed by TPS or Supervisors but the concern the union has is that the footage can be used to nail the operator without just cause.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The original concerns about the cameras were many (8? 10?) years ago - and all of their concerns were dealt with fairly at that time by protocols agreed to by both the TTC and the Union. The only change since then is that supervisors have the ability to review footage as well in the event of an incident not requiring TPS.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Of course, they're ignoring the cameras pointing at the drivers from automobile dashcams, ATMs, houses, businesses, etc..

 

[smallspy]

I've also seen little plastic tabs shielding the driver from the camera.

Yes, on the Nova buses specifically. Because of the design of the bus, and the type of cameras used, the location of one of the rearwards facing cameras will see the driver's face as well. The union objected to this, and so they mounted a small plastic flap to prevent that from happening.

Right now the concern is that they could be nailed with careless driving, unsafe operation of a motor vehicle etc based on the dash cam footage. Yes it is only reviewed by TPS or Supervisors but the concern the union has is that the footage can be used to nail the operator without just cause.

And none of that has changed since the original installations of the cameras. I don't know why you're making a big deal about it, because it hasn't been a big deal for a long time.

Hell, there are a lot of drivers out there that want and are welcoming the addition of the dash cam and exterior cameras, as it is felt that it will exonerate them in the event of an accident.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

Hell, there are a lot of drivers out there that want and are welcoming the addition of the dash cam and exterior cameras, as it is felt that it will exonerate them in the event of an accident.

Plenty of union representatives will say the same thing, and for the same reason.....just not while their members are within earshot.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Oct 3
Been a well that I have used Union to go to St George, but caught something as the train was pull in.

I had said for years that TTC should have the screens on the walls and on the centre columns at more locations than they do today, as well being bigger since they are cheap these day. Caught one on the wall as I hit the platform.

Not sure if this been posted before, as I am real behind on most things these days.

 

[drum118]

TTC consulting on use of external cameras on surface vehicles

October 3, 2018

The TTC is holding a public consultation session next Tues., Oct. 9 on its proposed use of external-facing cameras on buses and streetcars. The meeting is an opportunity to hear from the public and raise awareness of this important safety and security initiative.

Starting at 6:30 p.m., the public will be able to get information and speak one-on-one with TTC staff. At 7 p.m., a public forum will be held with an opportunity to ask questions and provide feedback to a panel of TTC staff.

Anyone with accessibility requirements should contact Deborah Brown at: deborah.brown@ttc.ca or 416-393-3800.

The TTC has also launched an online survey about external-facing cameras available at https://nam02.safelinks.protection....ZvIw0kqxIXyMLxdzXnTwj75QNh0eE=&reserved=0

Where: North York Civic Centre, Memorial Hall, Burgundy Room A&B, 5110 Yonge St. (near North York Centre Station on Line 1 Yonge-University).
When: Tuesday, October 9, 2018.
Time: 6:30 p.m. one-on-one with TTC staff; 7-8:30 p.m. question-and-answer session.