[Bordercollie]

The lack of time line and penalizing contractor was something that jump out at me when I first stated to attend TTC meetings and still is well over a decade when I first heard it.

I have recommended a number of times that the the ceiling strips and panels be removed 100% due to the amount of time to removed them, store them, clean them before reinstalling them to the point its a mesh mash matching ceiling that still collect break dust. TTC found out very quickly that the ceiling strips and panels had to go when the first TR started to test the system with break dust flying all over the place once it enter the station.

It been stated at TTC meetings a number of times about the look of the ceiling where a section has been removed as it never matched what was there after being reinstalled as well being damaged while being transfer to/from the storage area as well in the storage area.

TTC has stated in the past if x contractor is removed from a project or has preformed badly, they are not allow to bid on any project for 3-5 year along with no back charge. Not the real work of contracting where if you screw up, you are back charges to the point you are not allow to bid on any projects for X company or contractor again.

TTC is very sloppy in writing contracts with teeth in them and only have to look the the Flexity mess to see it. Even the TR issues were a slap on the hand.

Even when work is preformed by TTC own personal, it delayed by lack of scheduling to moving personal from one project to another due to lack of personal or the project is a low level one in the first place.

The flexities are fine expect the welding issues and are you recommending that we tender for 60 new cars to another vendor for a new design? What do you think that would cost? And how reliable will those be?

The TR's may not be the fastest or most fancy of designs but they meet the service duty cycles and have proven to be reliable.

I'm sure that the issues with the streetcar welding could have been identified during the manufacturing process of the TTC representative tasked at ensuring quality control had done their job properly.

 

[Undead]

..that's an environmental activist source. I'd take anything they claim about nuclear (or anything, really) with a truck load of salt. From qualified technical specialists working in the industry, concerns about nuclear are often overstated. This is partly because the general public doesn't understand the science and engineering behind these things; and the activist anti nuclear narrative has gotten too much air time.

If you want to talk about storage and clean energy, I'd be plenty worried about all the solar panel and windmill "green" ewaste being dumped and unsafely dismantled in developing countries. We're churning these things out as a supposedly green solution, but haven't put systems and processes in place for properly disposing them. If we're building deep ground repositories for nuclear waste, at least there's better odds this waste will be safely stored given higher safety and environmental standards in developed countries.

Nuclear isn't perfect; no power source is; net zero is nonsensical concept. But green energy as it's currently being pushed sure as hell isn't green (or safe, or cheap or reliable). Sorry for the ot.

 

[nfitz]

I'm sure that the issues with the streetcar welding could have been identified during the manufacturing process of the TTC representative tasked at ensuring quality control had done their job properly.

I thought from the previous discussion at this forum, the welding issue was identified very early!

 

[just east of the creek]

Disagree, at this point in time; based on the form of nuclear tech in wide use. Simple reason, we have yet to figure out how to store the waste in the long term. We haven't yet invented vessels that will last as long as spent nuclear fuel rods. Never mind the risk-factors (consequential though they may be); Just think about the cost of maintaining spent fuel rod storage for literally 20,000 years + (up to 24,000 years)

I think that issue is resolvable based on future variation of nuclear tech; but we simply aren't there, nor will be will be in the next decade, so expansion of existing plants, based on existing tech performs poorly from a life cycle economic and risk factor basis.



Yes; and No.

They are both issues. Sure, we can all agree those in the developed world, by and large, over consume. However the majority of the planet is still 'developing world', and even if you dropped consumption in the former by 25% per capita (not an easy achievement); the rest of the world rising to that new lower standard would still send current levels of consumption through the roof.

A significant reduction in global population would be useful. I would prefer a world of 4B humans to 8B. An adjustment made over several generations, through birth control, sex. ed, etc, is very achievable as seen by current birth rates
in the majority of the developed world.

Instead of fighting that, we need to spread it; and reap the benefits of ample, affordable housing, energy and food.



Agreed.

*****

FWIW, I'm not a proponent of wholesale switching to E-buses at this time. I am for advancing the tech and seeing what we can do to improve reliability, lower cost, and reduce the need for rare earths in its components.

But I see no pressing reason, in most places, and certainly not in Toronto to move to wholesale fleet conversion.

How do we square this countries ’need’ for much higher levels of immigration in order to sustain the countries population growth and economic growth with the argument that a significant population reduction would be useful. I am not being critical of the thought, I think the argument that Canada has an ideal population level of 55 million to be so much bunk. But we still seem to live in a lifestyle where bigger IS better, and more is much better then less, and Delivery should be in 24 hours or less.

 

[T3G]

I thought from the previous discussion at this forum, the welding issue was identified very early!

The need to send the cars back was identified publicly in the summer of 2018. Much closer to the end of the project than the start.

 

[Northern Light]

How do we square this countries ’need’ for much higher levels of immigration in order to sustain the countries population growth and economic growth with the argument that a significant population reduction would be useful. I am not being critical of the thought, I think the argument that Canada has an ideal population level of 55 million to be so much bunk. But we still seem to live in a lifestyle where bigger IS better, and more is much better then less, and Delivery should be in 24 hours or less.

I think there a series of answers to that.

Lets start with puncturing the 'bigger is better' mantra which is pervasive in corporations both in terms of buying other companies and creating ever larger conglomerates; but also in seeking to grow quarterly earnings at beyond inflationary growth without end.

This actually rarely serves the companies themselves well, and often ends with bankruptcy and/or major break-aparts of oversized and unwieldy amalgamations of unrelated businesses. We have any number of real world examples for this, but it doesn't stop the current, mindless train wreck of growth at all costs.

It also sets up so many anti-competitive scenarios which serve to squander capitalism's best pitch, that competition keeps margins low and drives innovation and productivity growth. Right now, it looks more like it drives anti-competitive bloat and oligopolies.

***

On the subject of population directly, the best example of the moment might actually be Japan, seeing as they do have a supposed demographic crisis in flight and population shrink is actually occurring.
This is a chart of that:

from: https://datacommons.org/place/country/JPN?category=Demographics#

Admittedly, they haven't hit the worst of their decline yet, that is still to come.

But supposedly they should be in freefall economically by now............so how is that going?

You know, that chart looks pretty damned good.

It turns out that while we do need young people to help pay for current pensioners, we also need current retirees to pay for primary and secondary education, and when there are fewer children, we spend less on that.

It turns out if you bump the retirement age up to reflect a growing population, that boosts savings, retirement income, employment income and tax revenue, and helps keep people mentally and physically fit longer.

The scenario that suggests that if we don't surge our population forward by several million we will economically collapse is proven to be so much nonsense.

That's not to suggest immigration is bad; inherently. It is not. Its simply not inherently good unto itself either.


****

We're wandering a tad OT here. So if you'd like to continue this further, perhaps we can do that in DMs if we don't find a more appropriate thread.

 

[max]

The need to send the cars back was identified publicly in the summer of 2018. Much closer to the end of the project than the start.

Sure, but they were aware there was an issue early, determined it wouldn't impact the cars for about a decade and decided it shouldn't hold back manufacturing. In the end the TTC got properly welded cars and use of them for some period earlier than they otherwise would have been available.

I for one am glad they waited until there was a solution before bringing the issue to the public. We pay a lot for expertise that's supposed to develop solutions and it isn't as if the TTC needed to be told they had to get a proper resolution from the manufacturer. I believe if they told the public immediately, in the absence of a clear path to a resolution, there'd like have been calls to scrap the cars all together.

 

[nfitz]

The need to send the cars back was identified publicly in the summer of 2018. Much closer to the end of the project than the start.

The critiism though was when the TTC identified it. Not when they announced it publicly - by which time they'd not only identified, but come up with the solution, timeframe, and who would pay for it.

I'm pretty sure there were TTC references about welding concerns in some TTC board report well before summer 2018 - and discussion at this forum here as well.

 

[smallspy]

TTC is the only system I have seen to date with Blue Lights on the front of vehicles. If there are systems with Blue Lights on them, haven't seen them so far. Saw no issues with the Blue Light in the beginning as TTC was moving to low floor vehicles, but not today when all vehicles are low floor in the first place. It does help looking into the distance to see if an vehicle is coming or not. There is an extra cost for those lights as well.

GRT's LRTs have the same blue lights as the TTC's.

Of course, being rail vehicles, they aren't covered by the HTA, nor the roadways division of Transport Canada.

Dan

 

[just east of the creek]

I think there a series of answers to that.

Lets start with puncturing the 'bigger is better' mantra which is pervasive in corporations both in terms of buying other companies and creating ever larger conglomerates; but also in seeking to grow quarterly earnings at beyond inflationary growth without end.

This actually rarely serves the companies themselves well, and often ends with bankruptcy and/or major break-aparts of oversized and unwieldy amalgamations of unrelated businesses. We have any number of real world examples for this, but it doesn't stop the current, mindless train wreck of growth at all costs.

It also sets up so many anti-competitive scenarios which serve to squander capitalism's best pitch, that competition keeps margins low and drives innovation and productivity growth. Right now, it looks more like it drives anti-competitive bloat and oligopolies.

***

On the subject of population directly, the best example of the moment might actually be Japan, seeing as they do have a supposed demographic crisis in flight and population shrink is actually occurring.
This is a chart of that:

View attachment 447559

from: https://datacommons.org/place/country/JPN?category=Demographics#

Admittedly, they haven't hit the worst of their decline yet, that is still to come.

But supposedly they should be in freefall economically by now............so how is that going?

View attachment 447560

You know, that chart looks pretty damned good.

It turns out that while we do need young people to help pay for current pensioners, we also need current retirees to pay for primary and secondary education, and when there are fewer children, we spend less on that.

It turns out if you bump the retirement age up to reflect a growing population, that boosts savings, retirement income, employment income and tax revenue, and helps keep people mentally and physically fit longer.

The scenario that suggests that if we don't surge our population forward by several million we will economically collapse is proven to be so much nonsense.

That's not to suggest immigration is bad; inherently. It is not. Its simply not inherently good unto itself either.


****

We're wandering a tad OT here. So if you'd like to continue this further, perhaps we can do that in DMs if we don't find a more appropriate thread.

I will agree with you in many ways, or clarify for the record: a) we are amazingly off topic, b) this is a very complex question c) in no way was my comment to be perceived as anti-immigrant. Excluding a very small % of the population, we, or our forefathers and mothers, came from elsewhere to this country, d) some would point out that Japans extraordinary national debt ratio to GDP ratio is in part due (as part of a combination of factors) a declining and aging population. I travel to Japan and Korea next month on business, the first time since pre-COVID, and it will be interesting to receive in person feedback on some of these questions. Back to the topic of the thread. But thank you.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Ribbon cutting maybe the reason the politicians support capital projects, not so much to maintain it properly. Maybe we should have ribbon cutting with each time a streetcar gets priority over the left-turning single-occupant autos?

From link. (Not any transit opening.)

Wonder if there will be a ribbon cutting should they get around putting real transit signal (TSP) at a new traffic signal intersection at Broadview & Erindale?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

 

[allengeorge]

Admittedly, they haven't hit the worst of their decline yet, that is still to come.

But supposedly they should be in freefall economically by now............so how is that going?

Japan’s aging wave hasn’t hit yet, and I would be very wary about drawing any conclusions about the link between dropping populations and economic prosperity from what we’re seeing so far. To repurpose a saying: events will happen gradually - and then suddenly.

(It’s also quite an interesting economy in that it’s quite the exporter, but also has quite an isolated internal consumer market that demands lots of localized goods.)

 

[Northern Light]

Japan’s aging wave hasn’t hit yet, and I would be very wary about drawing any conclusions about the link between dropping populations and economic prosperity from what we’re seeing so far. To repurpose a saying: events will happen gradually - and then suddenly.

(It’s also quite an interesting economy in that it’s quite the exporter, but also has quite an isolated internal consumer market that demands lots of localized goods.)

While I agree the issue is complex; again, further discussion probably needs a different home than this thread. I will simply re-state I don't accept that all growth is good; whatever the form.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Guess where public transit priority is in Toronto...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608569446318186503

 

[turbanplanner]

Guess where public transit priority is in Toronto...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608569446318186503

The TTC is getting billions of the budget in operating and capital works budgets. We've been putting off gardiner repairs for decades so it makes sense I'd be expensive this year.