[dowlingm]

It's 2023, with no idea when the latest construction project will finish, and undoubtedly they're going to pull some other reason out of their ass to close the line for another 2 years because why the hell NOT?
The service is totally unreliable, and very inconvenient as you need to switch vehicles at least once, and you can't go more than a few months without playing musical chairs.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. I’m sure the TTC will be delighted to take your complaint regarding a decision they have no control over.

That said, perhaps the 501 route creates irrational expectations from people like yourself. After all, almost every bus route in the city which crosses the Yonge or Bloor subway terminates and forces a change. While the TTC does not have tap off data, what it gets from tap on likely gives them a good sense of how many trips are through. With transit apps nudging people to the fastest route first, and fewer transfers only if explicitly chosen, I suspect the answer to that is “fewer than there used to be”.

someone (@SteveMunro maybe?) noted recently that the TTC posted a streetcar availability including placeholder rows for 508 and 507. Perhaps that is the shape of things to come.

 

[turbanplanner]

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. I’m sure the TTC will be delighted to take your complaint regarding a decision they have no control over.

That said, perhaps the 501 route creates irrational expectations from people like yourself. After all, almost every bus route in the city which crosses the Yonge or Bloor subway terminates and forces a change. While the TTC does not have tap off data, what it gets from tap on likely gives them a good sense of how many trips are through. With transit apps nudging people to the fastest route first, and fewer transfers only if explicitly chosen, I suspect the answer to that is “fewer than there used to be”.

someone (@SteveMunro maybe?) noted recently that the TTC posted a streetcar availability including placeholder rows for 508 and 507. Perhaps that is the shape of things to come.

I know about the ontario line closure but at least they're not shutting off the system, for 10 years and actually planned to make diversion tracks.

When I used the 501 a few years ago when the route was initially severed I was told to not tap back on and was double charged. It's pretty rare to walk up to humber loop so I'm sure people just hop on without tapping.

 

[turbanplanner]

The decade part kind of matters when discussing this.



There's no question there was a closure that year, and I know KQQR has been interminably long and ongoing since 2020/21. I'm not sure what the state of work was in 2018-2020 on west end Queen. Suffice to say, I'm content to agree that the workflow could be better managed. But I think the answer to that, is better construction planning and management rather than permanent bus service.

I would add, relatively few riders traverse the route from west of KQQR to downtown each day, that's a very long distance over which to travel that route and I expect the delivery of a Park Lawn GO Station will nix much of the remaining traffic for that movement in the next few years.

Not that that takes away from the need for a better work flow and diversion planning process.

Humber bay has a significant number of residents since the closures started (including some I work with) Also the go station was voted against by pretty much every planner and only went through because of political medaling.
I say this a lot but it's a great example of why people are weary about density, and trusting transit over their cars.

 

[Amare]

New Year, same old TTC:

Its very hard to attract riders back to your system when half of the Rapid transit network is screwed up operationally.

 

[max]

New Year, same old TTC:

View attachment 448281
View attachment 448282

Its very hard to attract riders back to your system when half of the Rapid transit network is screwed up operationally.

To be fair, that's more like a 1/3 than 1/2

 

[Jonny5]

I went into the office downtown this morning and the first TTC experience of 2023 was the 504 and seeing "Next vehicles: 1 minute, 2 minutes, 17 minutes" on the app.
Needless to say I hoofed it to the stop and thankfully got that second streetcar on the list. but nice to see the TTC is starting 2023 already in their mid-season form!

 

[TTCdinosaur]

I went into the office downtown this morning and the first TTC experience of 2023 was the 504 and seeing "Next vehicles: 1 minute, 2 minutes, 17 minutes" on the app.
Needless to say I hoofed it to the stop and thankfully got that second streetcar on the list. but nice to see the TTC is starting 2023 already in their mid-season form!

lol even with hoilday traffic, they can't run a system - I'm sure pumping more and more money in will solve it. I doubt the TTC could run on time even if no one took it. Apparently even their own data shows their inability to run an effective system: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-ttc-board-of-directors-to-demand-better.html

For those who want data.

 

[W. K. Lis]

lol even with hoilday traffic, they can't run a system - I'm sure pumping more and more money in will solve it. I doubt the TTC could run on time even if no one took it. Apparently even their own data shows their inability to run an effective system: https://www.thestar.com/opinion/con...-ttc-board-of-directors-to-demand-better.html

For those who want data.

The commissioners on the TTC should be actual public transit users, not just for photo ops. If you don't use the TTC on a regular basis, you will not experience the problems that occur on the TTC. They need to lobby for improvements, including demands from outside the TTC that could improve it. We need a new TTC CEO, who is not from North America, and who actually uses public transit.

That includes demands to Toronto Hydro to make the King-Queen-Roncesvalles-Queensway intersection reconstruction faster. They should demand that Toronto Transportation (and MTO) give REAL transit signal priority instead of giving single-occupant motorists turning left priority over the 100+ onboard the streetcars.

We need transit signal priority traffic signals at ALL the subway stations for buses and streetcars. Why should public transit vehicles have to wait 3 minutes to edge into traffic? That only causes bunching.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

 

[TTCdinosaur]

The commissioners on the TTC should be actual public transit users, not just for photo ops. If you don't use the TTC on a regular basis, you will not experience the problems that occur on the TTC. They need to lobby for improvements, including demands from outside the TTC that could improve it. We need a new TTC CEO, who is not from North America, and who actually uses public transit.

That includes demands to Toronto Hydro to make the King-Queen-Roncesvalles-Queensway intersection reconstruction faster. They should demand that Toronto Transportation (and MTO) give REAL transit signal priority instead of giving single-occupant motorists turning left priority over the 100+ onboard the streetcars.

We need transit signal priority traffic signals at ALL the subway stations for buses and streetcars. Why should public transit vehicles have to wait 3 minutes to edge into traffic? That only causes bunching.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605331887962353665

Lately, if you look at the streets, there are more people in cars than on the streetcars.

During the day now, especially M and F there are often more people driving than on the streetcar in the core section of downtown and it is impossible to find data on this because the TTC doesn't track it segment by segment.

 

[Undead]

I was thinking along the same lines when getting stuck at Finch Station because of the track geometry issues. What would it take to fix that and will it be done as part of YNSE?

 

[Northern Light]

I was thinking along the same lines when getting stuck at Finch Station because of the track geometry issues. What would it take to fix that and will it be done as part of YNSE?

?

Are you meaning because of the delays that occur in the peak, when trains have to hold before leaving or entering as another train must cross in front of their path?

 

[Undead]

?

Are you meaning because of the delays that occur in the peak, when trains have to hold before leaving or entering as another train must cross in front of their path?

That's the one. Though today they must have scheduled less service because we didn't get stuck on the approach.

 

[Undead]

The TTC map has a filter on Snapchat:

https://imgur.com/a/K3QoRej

 

[Northern Light]

That's the one. Though today they must have scheduled less service because we didn't get stuck on the approach.

So, there a couple of different answers to this.

The limitation is the time its take one train to pass in front of another, blocking at least one, maybe 2 trains from proceeding.
The minimum time involved is the time it requires for passengers to enter/exit on the platform, plus, the time it takes to switch the driver to the opposite end of the vehicle.
Those things limit the ability of trains to move any faster at a terminal station.

Aside from routine refinement of execution, you address that the following ways:

1) For the driver, you used step-back crewing, so that when a train enters a terminal, a new driver is positioned at what will be the head-end and is read-to-go when the train is ready for departure. The existing driver steps off and takes a break, until the next train. You can also do double-step back (so you have a break equal to two trains coming and going if service is super frequent)

2) You address the geometry part. This you can do to some degree w/how you shape the station approach, and the speed at which trains can turnout. But that's not the ideal choice.
Ideally, you have the train proceed beyond the terminal and turn back behind the station, onto the the opposite direction track., in doing so, it doesn't block any approaching train, with ATC, another train can enter the station as soon as the track is clear.

3) If you want a super-tight turnaround, do this at two different stations, ie. don't send all service to end of the line. By turning back at two different points (using a pocket track), you're able to reduce conflicting movements.
This also helps answer the question of {but there's no room on the train south of Sheppard). Great, so turn back 1/2 the trains at Finch (or #7 or w/e) and turn back 1/2 at York Mills.

The argument against this move is that for people destined for the terminal, it means they have to wait for every second train. There are always trade-offs.

 

[smallspy]

That's the one. Though today they must have scheduled less service because we didn't get stuck on the approach.

There is no fix to the track geometry through there. It's defined by the tunnel structures, not the track.

I haven't had the opportunity to take a train into Finch since the ATO/ATC system went live up that way, but my understanding is that the delays to trains entering the station have been been greatly reduced. The new signal system reduces the amount of time that any given train needs to occupy the crossover, and also reduces the amount of space between trains stacking up to enter the station - the former will actually help reduce the delays by allowing more trains to go through the crossover, while the latter helps reduce the impression of a delay.

Dan