[TTCdinosaur]

Seriously. Traffic, especially downtown, looks the same as it was in 2019. Which is to say: terrible. And it goes back to your point of cars being an inefficient way to move people.

I think we’re in a cycle that starts with people making the decision to drive during the pandemic and ends with people eventually choosing transit. Horrible traffic, expensive parking, and dealing with bad drivers are all back again. If transit is reliable and safe people are gonna start questioning why they need to endure the hassle of driving. And I think we’re already seeing it with off-peak GO train travel. They are definitely busier than before the pandemic. Though part of this is also due to a less frequent schedule.

The city makes transit more attractive by making driving more difficult on purpose not by making transit better. But don’t respond to “un troll”.

I don’t know if there has been a modal shift or not, but what the TTC does have is a perception issue. I talk to friends, coworkers, etc., and at this point they all attempt to avoid the TTC if they can, especially women, who often do feel scared to ride the TTC lately (anecdotal evidence of course). The actual per/100k statistics are not as relevant as the perception of safety, cleanliness, and reliability. When you’ve spent 3 years working from home, you get used to an environment and standard that makes the current TTC experience (which seems to have declined since COVID) even more jarring. These are issues that are not solved by a CEO who hides from the public, and seems to support an ever-declining status quo.

To me, a perception issue implies that there’s something people are seeing that isn’t true. I would argue it is wholly an experience issue right now.

Taking the mental health issues aside. Somehow despite not being at max capacity, they still can’t run a streetcar on time due to incredibly poor planning.

 

[T3G]

Taking the mental health issues aside. Somehow despite not being at max capacity, they still can’t run a streetcar on time due to incredibly poor planning.

But this was a problem pre-COVID too.

For decades before COVID.

 

[TTCdinosaur]

But this was a problem pre-COVID too.

For decades before COVID.

King Street worked well before COVID despite the crush loads. Now post COVID even with fewer people, they are bunched, poorly managed and as you've pointed out, run on ridiculous speed restriction rules. Not to mention for my thirty years in Toronto, this is the first time they've done the galaxy brain approach of closing parts of College, Dundas, Queen and King all at once

Again back to my original question, how do these decisions and investments actually get people back on the TTC and meet ridership where it needs to be? Every time this question is asked it is just explanations of why things suck and how defensible it is.

 

[turbanplanner]

It could also partly be your perception, and recency bias coming from the low road usage during the pandemic

No, traffic times are way up.

I don’t know if there has been a modal shift or not, but what the TTC does have is a perception issue. I talk to friends, coworkers, etc., and at this point they all attempt to avoid the TTC if they can, especially women, who often do feel scared to ride the TTC lately (anecdotal evidence of course). The actual per/100k statistics are not as relevant as the perception of safety, cleanliness, and reliability. When you’ve spent 3 years working from home, you get used to an environment and standard that makes the current TTC experience (which seems to have declined since COVID) even more jarring. These are issues that are not solved by a CEO who hides from the public, and seems to support an ever-declining status quo.

Keep in mind the stats are almost irrelevant because people won't report shit unless they're stabbed or dead. I tried reporting an assault and the operator gave me a WTF look

 

[turbanplanner]

King Street worked well before COVID despite the crush loads. Now post COVID even with fewer people, they are bunched, poorly managed and as you've pointed out, run on ridiculous speed restriction rules. Not to mention for my thirty years in Toronto, this is the first time they've done the galaxy brain approach of closing parts of College, Dundas, Queen and King all at once

Again back to my original question, how do these decisions and investments actually get people back on the TTC and meet ridership where it needs to be? Every time this question is asked it is just explanations of why things suck and how defensible it is.

They might as well convert queen to bus service, at least west of the russel carhouse. It's ran for only a few months in the last decade and the bus service covers a lot of streets and areas the streetcar line did not.

 

[allengeorge]

No, traffic times are way up.

Could you share the stats? I’m always on the lookout for good stats on traffic times across all modes.

 

[Northern Light]

Keep in mind the stats are almost irrelevant because people won't report shit unless they're stabbed or dead. I tried reporting an assault and the operator gave me a WTF look

This is absolutely not true.

Certainly many people let 'minor' things go, though many do report them; but I haven't seen any evidence, nor would I believe any that suggested a material number of assaults or thefts were going unreported.

In any event, stats are taken the same way over time, so they can be used to show trends, even if their absolute numbers aren't correct.

 

[Northern Light]

They might as well convert queen to bus service, at least west of the russel carhouse. It's ran for only a few months in the last decade and the bus service covers a lot of streets and areas the streetcar line did not.

This is also entirely incorrect to the point of being absurd. Why do you insist on making such extreme statements which you either know are untrue or are too ill-informed to be posting comments on?

Please stop.

We can have respectful disagreements on preferences, we cannot really disagree on facts for which evidence is available. Too many of your comments in too many threads are inconsistent with the facts.

 

[APTA-2048]

Again back to my original question, how do these decisions and investments actually get people back on the TTC and meet ridership where it needs to be? Every time this question is asked it is just explanations of why things suck and how defensible it is.

Because we have a terrible mayor, terrible councillors, and terrible CEO. And voters seem perfectly happy with that. No one is defending this. But what else can you do to improve the TTC when leadership is this awful and no one seems to care.

 

[Northern Light]

Because we have a terrible mayor, terrible councillors, and terrible CEO. And voters seem perfectly happy with that. No one is defending this. But what else can you do to improve the TTC when leadership is this awful and no one seems to care.

I don't think 'no one cares' is a fair statement.

Certainly the TTC Board and Council seem insufficiently interested in Rick Leary's miserable performance as TTC CEO, something that could have been predicted from his less than stellar CV, but I digress.

Truthfully, most of the public has never heard of Rick Leary, just as they couldn't name the head of Transportation services, or quite probably our new Police Chief. Some of that is regrettable apathy; but it has to be allowed that not everone can
be a policy wonk or transit nerd etc etc. Some of those people are deeply caring folks who are nerds for other subjects or whose spare time is devoted to other worthy causes. Some are occupied with their own lives, and daily struggles; while others may simply find government too opaque.

That's not to say people don't want or care about better TTC service; they'd also like lower crime, better parks, less homelessness etc.

Should those folks have bothered to come out and vote Penalosa instead of Tory, sure, I'd agree with that happily enough. But the reality is, his campaign started late, was under-funded and got insufficient media attention. Gil is a great policy wonk, but not the most charismatic fellow; and dislodging a well-monied incumbent is not an easy affair unless they are truly despised.

****

We do need electoral reform (including at the local level); we do need less money in politics; we do need more people to vote, and media that are more informative and insightful on issues that matter.

But back in the real world, that we all live in; I don't think its fair to say people don't care; so much as they are unaware of what action they could take to change things; and of who they could and should put in charge instead; assuming that choice is on offer.

 

[turbanplanner]

This is also entirely incorrect to the point of being absurd. Why you insist on making such extreme statements which you either know are untrue or are to ill-informed to be posting comments on.

Please stop.

We can have respectful disagreements on preferences, we cannot really disagree on facts for which evidence is available. To many of your comments in too many threads are inconsistent with the facts.

Show me how often the 501 has actually fully ran as a streetcar service? Basically every streetcar route has been out of service for at least a year since 2012 but the 501 queen is never running in the west end.
I was wrong about the decade part but since 2017 it's been perpetually closed. Also they split the route in 2 so everyone has to switch vehicles if it ever runs again. Might as well have multiple bus routes that cover more parts of the west end if people need to change vehicles.

In January 2017, construction began for approximately 15 months on various projects west of Roncesvalles Avenue

From May to September 2017, all streetcar service along the entire 501 Queen route was replaced by buses

Since March 31, 2021, the 501 Queen route has been partially closed due to construction activity, including track replacement

Major construction on Queen Street West's streetcar tracks starts this week | Urbanized

The City of Toronto is starting construction on the streetcar track along Queen Street West from Bay Street to Fennings Street.

dailyhive.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/501-queen-closure-1.4004230.


It's 2023, with no idea when the latest construction project will finish, and undoubtedly they're going to pull some other reason out of their ass to close the line for another 2 years because why the hell NOT?
The service is totally unreliable, and very inconvenient as you need to switch vehicles at least once, and you can't go more than a few months without playing musical chairs.

 

[dowlingm]

I find the roads a lot busier, it's probably a mix of people from toronto moving out (so not using the ttc anymore) and former ttc riders driving

Home deliveries are surely moving the needle also. I wonder how close we are to “ghost” grocery stores solely for deliveries, in the way this model has been created in the food delivery sector.

 

[turbanplanner]

Should those folks have bothered to come out and vote Penalosa instead of Tory

Everyone fell for gil hook line and sinker, he had zero intention of being a mayor and just wanted to trump up his consulting business.

 

[Northern Light]

Show me how often the 501 has actually fully ran as a streetcar service? Basically every streetcar route has been out of service for at least a year since 2012 but the 501 queen is never running in the west end.
I was wrong about the decade part

The decade part kind of matters when discussing this.

but since 2017 it's been perpetually closed. Also they split the route in 2 so everyone has to switch vehicles if it ever runs again. Might as well have multiple bus routes that cover more parts of the west end if people need to change vehicles.

There's no question there was a closure that year, and I know KQQR has been interminably long and ongoing since 2020/21. I'm not sure what the state of work was in 2018-2020 on west end Queen. Suffice to say, I'm content to agree that the workflow could be better managed. But I think the answer to that, is better construction planning and management rather than permanent bus service.

I would add, relatively few riders traverse the route from west of KQQR to downtown each day, that's a very long distance over which to travel that route and I expect the delivery of a Park Lawn GO Station will nix much of the remaining traffic for that movement in the next few years.

Not that that takes away from the need for a better work flow and diversion planning process.

 

[DSC]

Home deliveries are surely moving the needle also. I wonder how close we are to “ghost” grocery stores solely for deliveries, in the way this model has been created in the food delivery sector.

I would have thought that if one is running an online grocery service you would want to be as close as possible to your customers without needing to be VERY close so using the main warehouses would not work as they are usually suburban and infrequent. You might want to use only a few actual stores as both walk-in stores and as the 'bases' for deliveries. These bases would not need to be as close to customers as those serving only 'walk-ins' but closer than warehouses or 'delivery-only' 'stores'.