turbanplanner
Senior Member
transit by allowing Poilievre to cancel all transit funding with one program cancellation
Yes but then at least he has to take the heat for doing this
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- Thread starter drum118
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Yes but then at least he has to take the heat for doing this
rbt
Senior Member
Indeed. And a some of that heat will come from allies like Ford and Smith; both have non-trivial underfunded transit ambitions at the study stage (Sheppard subway, and an Edmonton/Calgary route). If not publicly, then they'll be pissed in private meetings.
The program name could be changed and some of the terms expanded to allow things like bridge replacement in small towns rather than just public transit in larger centers, but the funds will largely stay intact.
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Toronto Rocks
Active Member
So they are just talking about it now. This is an announcement for future announcements. "No $$$ yet - Vote us Liberals back in, and we promise we'll make some future announcements!"This was the announcement;
Backgrounder: Federal government launches the Canada Public Transit Fund, investing in public transit needs across Canada - Canada.ca
Le gouvernement fédéral lance le Fonds pour le transport en commun du Canada en vue de répondre aux besoins de transport en commun partout au Canada.www.canada.ca
Northern Light
Superstar
They have said they are opening applications for the funds immediately.
But there's no (public) timeline on when any agreements flowing money/project approvals will be made. (or none that I've seen thus far)
Toronto Rocks
Active Member
The Mayor of Toronto, Premier Ford and the outgoing TTC have been begging for months.
'It is very serious:' TTC CEO concerned as subway trains on Line 2 approach end of design life
The aging subway trains used along Line 2 will be at the end of their design life in 2026 and the TTC is still short hundreds of millions of dollars that it will need to cover the cost of replacement vehicles, CEO Ricky Leary is warning.
www.cp24.com
T3G
Senior Member
The decision not to refurbish the T1s several years ago is looking increasingly foolish with every passing day.
I love it when public officials engage in brinkmanship.
I love it when public officials engage in brinkmanship.
Amare
Senior Member
I believe 2026 is the earliest that any funding will start flowing out the door. The Feds can approve on whatever timeline they want, but the money wont flow for at least 2 years. Par is the course with this government delaying cash flows for basically everything.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is correct; that would be fine for the subway car order, because payment is generally on delivery, and there won't be any new trains arriving here before 2027 at the earliest.
DSC
Superstar
More from cp24. https://www.cp24.com/news/trudeau-s...-30b-federal-transit-fund-kicks-off-1.6966904
Published Wednesday, July 17, 2024 8:56AM EDT
Last Updated Wednesday, July 17, 2024 12:33PM EDT
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Wednesday that there is an "ongoing conversation" about new subway cars for Toronto as applications opened for the federal government’s new 10-year, $30 billion transit fund.
Trudeau made the comments on a visit to a TTC facility that repairs subway cars with Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow and Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland today.
"That is an ongoing conversation," Trudeau said when a worker asked him about funding for new trains. "We recognize the rolling stock has been expertly maintained for many many years, and there is always a need to make sure that we are increasing capacity, increasing the ability of trains to respond to growing needs."
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Mayor Olivia Chow and Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland tour a TTC facility in Toronto Wednesday July 17, 2024.
Trudeau's visit marked the opening of applications to the Canada Public Transit Fund. The federal government says it plans to provide $3 billion a year over 10 years in order to fund capital transit projects. The money from the fund isn't expected to flow before 2026, but applications for projects open Wednesday.
The city has been eagerly awaiting word from Ottawa on whether the federal government will kick in hundreds of millions of dollars needed to purchase new subway trains to replace the aging Line 2 vehicles.
Outgoing TTC CEO Rick Leary warned weeks ago that the need "is very serious" and pointed to the Scarborough RT derailment as an example of what can happen when old infrastructure is refurbished "beyond its useful life."
Trudeau indicated Wednesday that while there is a conversation about new subway cars, money provided to Toronto through the new fund will not be designated by Ottawa for particular projects.
"
It’s not for the federal government to decide what the provinces are going to be spending on," he said. "We're there to be a partner on their priorities, as long as they fit within a plan that makes sense. The decisions around that are done much more at the provincial, municipal and regional level."
Speaking alongside Trudeau, Chow touted the new fund as an "incredible long-term partnership" with the federal government.
Published Wednesday, July 17, 2024 8:56AM EDT
Last Updated Wednesday, July 17, 2024 12:33PM EDT
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Wednesday that there is an "ongoing conversation" about new subway cars for Toronto as applications opened for the federal government’s new 10-year, $30 billion transit fund.
Trudeau made the comments on a visit to a TTC facility that repairs subway cars with Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow and Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland today.
"That is an ongoing conversation," Trudeau said when a worker asked him about funding for new trains. "We recognize the rolling stock has been expertly maintained for many many years, and there is always a need to make sure that we are increasing capacity, increasing the ability of trains to respond to growing needs."
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Mayor Olivia Chow and Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland tour a TTC facility in Toronto Wednesday July 17, 2024.
Trudeau's visit marked the opening of applications to the Canada Public Transit Fund. The federal government says it plans to provide $3 billion a year over 10 years in order to fund capital transit projects. The money from the fund isn't expected to flow before 2026, but applications for projects open Wednesday.
The city has been eagerly awaiting word from Ottawa on whether the federal government will kick in hundreds of millions of dollars needed to purchase new subway trains to replace the aging Line 2 vehicles.
Outgoing TTC CEO Rick Leary warned weeks ago that the need "is very serious" and pointed to the Scarborough RT derailment as an example of what can happen when old infrastructure is refurbished "beyond its useful life."
Trudeau indicated Wednesday that while there is a conversation about new subway cars, money provided to Toronto through the new fund will not be designated by Ottawa for particular projects.
"
It’s not for the federal government to decide what the provinces are going to be spending on," he said. "We're there to be a partner on their priorities, as long as they fit within a plan that makes sense. The decisions around that are done much more at the provincial, municipal and regional level."
Speaking alongside Trudeau, Chow touted the new fund as an "incredible long-term partnership" with the federal government.
chrisw
Active Member
Specifically, delivery would probably be from 2031-2036, if things go to plan.
81-717
Active Member
Supposed to be 2029/2030 – 2033 (55 replacements), and up to 2035 for the rest of the fleet if contract is awarded this year.
nfitz
Superstar
This seems like excellent news for the T1 replacements, which had already completed the RFP process (though presumably that can be quickly recompleted now, for a quick award). There's well over a year until the next election, and a lot of time to finalize payment schemes that future governments will be forced to stick to.
I'm not sure about the other $29 billion or so. Supposedly much of Line 7 has been almost shovel ready since for over a decade. Can the City and TTC get both that, and the Queens Quay East/Union rebuild prepped in time? I'd think that it would cover the federal share of those two projects as well.
Perhaps the best news, is that it will give us more to argue about them for the rest of the year!
I'm not sure about the other $29 billion or so. Supposedly much of Line 7 has been almost shovel ready since for over a decade. Can the City and TTC get both that, and the Queens Quay East/Union rebuild prepped in time? I'd think that it would cover the federal share of those two projects as well.
Perhaps the best news, is that it will give us more to argue about them for the rest of the year!
Amare
Senior Member
The other $29 billion is for the entire country spread over the next 10 years (~$ 3 Billion/year). While it sounds like a lot, it's not as much as you think from a public transit infrastructure perspective.This seems like excellent news for the T1 replacements, which had already completed the RFP process (though presumably that can be quickly recompleted now, for a quick award). There's well over a year until the next election, and a lot of time to finalize payment schemes that future governments will be forced to stick to.
I'm not sure about the other $29 billion or so. Supposedly much of Line 7 has been almost shovel ready since for over a decade. Can the City and TTC get both that, and the Queens Quay East/Union rebuild prepped in time? I'd think that it would cover the federal share of those two projects as well.
Perhaps the best news, is that it will give us more to argue about them for the rest of the year!
Northern Light
Superstar
This seems like excellent news for the T1 replacements, which had already completed the RFP process (though presumably that can be quickly recompleted now, for a quick award). There's well over a year until the next election, and a lot of time to finalize payment schemes that future governments will be forced to stick to.
I'm not sure about the other $29 billion or so. Supposedly much of Line 7 has been almost shovel ready since for over a decade. Can the City and TTC get both that, and the Queens Quay East/Union rebuild prepped in time? I'd think that it would cover the federal share of those two projects as well.
Perhaps the best news, is that it will give us more to argue about them for the rest of the year!
I don't believe Line 7 is going to go forward in the near term, but could stand to be corrected.
As of writing, there is yet to be an agreed solution at Kennedy Station, though I understand, something is being worked out...........maybe...
There are other complications as well.
The Toronto Region's share is likely to be slightly greater than our proportion of the population, something around 10B I would think.
After the rolling stock.......
My expectations are that there will be money for:
Milton GO (the ask from Ontario is 3B)
Hurontario LRT extension to Brampton ($TBD)
WWELRT
St. George Station expansion (due to rollout shortly after Y-B is done, and will be at least as expensive.
There are some other projects outside the City likely to catch interest as well.
drum118
Superstar
Need to add the cost for the new Line 2 West Yard to service the new trains.
Need to add the various phases for Waterfront Transit plans.
If the City and TTC were smart which they are not, the would bump the 60% design for QQE up to 100% this year to allow a tender in 2025-26 and shovel in the ground to get the bypass line in service by 2030 or sooner and let the Union Loop follow at a later date on TTC timetable.
The other thing is look at rebuilding the Cherry St bridge as originally proposed back in 2008-2010 that would see the bridge length increase to allow the current line run straight compared to what is plan now as well keeping the loop that will require some rework. It will have an impact on the rail corridor that underway, but widening it that will benefit the corridor. Could go back and look at putting a GO station there as well that was also proposed.
At the same time, a new EA could start for the first phase of extending the Commissioner Line to where the Broadview extension is to happen with the Broadview LRT included in that EA with provision to allow the Commissioner Line to be extended to the Leslie Barns.
Once the EA is completed, 100% design work be started to get the shovels in the ground as well order the Cherry St LRT bridge that is supposed to be design all ready. A site on Commissioner will have to be setup the 2 sections of the bridge together since it will be the same length as the road bridge. Construction of the end piers as well the centre one will have to take place for the bridge that will have to be walked into place on barges in the river. The section of the LRT could be open by 2035