[BurlOak]

I don't know -- there's a very big difference between the Eglinton LRT and the Queen streetcar. I think something like the current streetcar icon is great for the legacy streetcar routes, because it looks almost but not quite like a bus, which pretty accurately describes the service. The Eglinton LRT, on the other hand, will essentially be a subway, and probably should be differentiated from the legacy streetcars.

I would say maybe it acts like a bus, not looks like a bus.

You could put a short barrier on either side of the LRT icon to differentiate it from a streetcar - show it in its own ROW. Not sure which icon to use on St. Clair, Spadina and Waterfront.

 

[Contra]

The colour and fonts used on signage is one thing, but the images quoted were from ISO 7001, which is an international standard for pictograms. There are also competing standards, like the US Department of Transportation. While obviously not "universal" in that there are competitors, they exist, and so the point is there's no real need to come up with our own pictures of subway trains if others are available.

Very true. Ideally we would be able to have a fresh start with many transit commissions and have them all adopt these pictograms. A universal wayfinding language, especially for transit would be of the highest value, plus it saves everyone on design committees a lot of time (and maybe puts me out of a job! )

 

[Catenary]

As others have mentioned, I don't think the TTC needs a new name or redesign. I think the better project would be to envision what a new regional transport agency would be called and branded as, if all GTHA transit agencies were to be combined into a new super agency as has been tossed around. Don't get into the politics of who would run it, but consider how the services would be branded if all regional options were combined, including commuter rail, subway, streetcar, numerous GTHA light rail projects, regional bus, express/BRT buses and local buses. I think this would make for a much more interesting project since then you're working on a bigger scale and have a relatively fresh start.

 

[W. K. Lis]

As others have mentioned, I don't think the TTC needs a new name or redesign. I think the better project would be to envision what a new regional transport agency would be called and branded as, if all GTHA transit agencies were to be combined into a new super agency as has been tossed around. Don't get into the politics of who would run it, but consider how the services would be branded if all regional options were combined, including commuter rail, subway, streetcar, numerous GTHA light rail projects, regional bus, express/BRT buses and local buses. I think this would make for a much more interesting project since then you're working on a bigger scale and have a relatively fresh start.

The Toronto Civic Railway was the original name of the city department that provided municipal streetcar service in 1912 (it was part of the Department of Works, Railway, and Bridge section). The amalgamation of the Toronto Railway Company and the Toronto Civic Railway (and the Toronto Suburban Railway, the Toronto and York Radial Railway, etc.) in 1921 was named the Toronto Transportation Commission (as an independent commission, not a department) to avoid the nickname "Tommy Church's Lines" of the mayor of the time, Mayor Thomas Langton Church. The Toronto Transportation Commission was then renamed as the Toronto Transit Commission in 1954 when it was expanded because of formation of Metropolitan Toronto.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

There's little reason to re-brand the TTC (or any organization really) if some aspect of the service itself hasn't demonstrably changed. Even when there is something that is obviously "new" or "improved," it is often easier to rehabilitate the existing brand. Conversely, consumers aren't often tricked by simply marketing a flashy new name and/or logo for very long.

Some years ago a Metro Councillor wanted to re-brand the TTC as the "Metro Toronto Transit Commission" (back in the time when the City and Metro were in the midst of their squabble that was eventually quashed by amalgamation) and when told that the cost to re-brand for the sake of re-branding would be very significant, backed off immediately. The costs included were redesign of logos and graphics, signage, fare media, marketing material, vehicle repainting, etc.

 

[rbt]

Some years ago a Metro Councillor wanted to re-brand the TTC as the "Metro Toronto Transit Commission" (back in the time when the City and Metro were in the midst of their squabble that was eventually quashed by amalgamation) and when told that the cost to re-brand for the sake of re-branding would be very significant, backed off immediately. The costs included were redesign of logos and graphics, signage, fare media, marketing material, vehicle repainting, etc.

Not hard to imagine that it would be a 200 million dollar exercise to change the name of the TTC as that digs into every legal document and contract they have. I can envision 100 contract lawyers doing nothing but name changes for months.

A redesign maintaining the name wouldn't be over 50 million and that can be reduced if you don't mind the effort taking 20 to 30 years to implement (signs have life-spans and must be replaced eventually).

Of course, the main complaint about current TTC branding is that they have been implemented over 30 year timeframes and the sign standards change every 5 years resulting in 6 or more different types of signage.

 

[ShonTron]

Not hard to imagine that it would be a 200 million dollar exercise to change the name of the TTC as that digs into every legal document and contract they have. I can envision 100 contract lawyers doing nothing but name changes for months.

A redesign maintaining the name wouldn't be over 50 million and that can be reduced if you don't mind the effort taking 20 to 30 years to implement (signs have life-spans and must be replaced eventually).

Of course, the main complaint about current TTC branding is that they have been implemented over 30 year timeframes and the sign standards change every 5 years resulting in 6 or more different types of signage.

It is also relatively easy to change the public name if you maintain an official, legal name. I still don't like the name "MiWay" but it is merely a brand. The official, legal name for that agency is still Mississauga Transit.

I love how the system in Hamilton has had the exact same name since the 1870s, though it went through several ownership changes in the last 140 years.

 

[rbt]

It is also relatively easy to change the public name if you maintain an official, legal name. I still don't like the name "MiWay" but it is merely a brand. The official, legal name for that agency is still Mississauga Transit.

I love how the system in Hamilton has had the exact same name since the 1870s, though it went through several ownership changes in the last 140 years.

Yes.

The "Metro" change was a little more official than simple branding. It was about showing control/ownership over the agency and involved an official name change.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Found this little article while surfing some time ago, from this link:

Toyota’s North American R&D Base Opens 2nd Campus
Tokyo — TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announced yesterday that Toyota Technical Center (TTC), a division of Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America, Inc. (TEMA), has opened a campus in York Township, Michigan, U.S.A. The new campus, which was officially opened during a ceremony yesterday, will handle TTC’s product planning and engineering design operations, as well as serve as TMC’s first collision-safety testing facility outside Japan.

TTC, which is based in Ann Arbor, Michigan and has served as TMC’s North American vehicle research and development base since 1977, has invested 187 million U.S. dollars in the York Township campus. The campus, for which plans were announced in April 2005, will create a total of 400 additional jobs at TTC by the end of 2010.

TTC’s Ann Arbor campus will continue to carry out evaluation activities, powertrain design and development, and research into materials and cutting-edge technologies.

With Japan as the centre, TMC has established research and development bases in North America, Europe, Asia and Australia to carry out vehicle and parts design, planning and evaluation. TMC intends to continue striving to develop and offer products that suit regional conditions, and to meet the needs of customers all over the world.

I would have thought our Toronto Transit Commission would have the copyright and trademark to TTC婪.

 

[Johnny Au]

Ah yes, the Hamilton Street Railway. It still retains this name, even during the decades when it did not run any rolling stock (just buses). It would be silly to change the TTC's name to TorTransCo or similar (even if it is to avoid the "Take The Car" nickname).

 

[nfitz]

even if it is to avoid the "Take The Car" nickname

Why avoid it? Play with it. I took the 506 and 504 cars this morning!

 

[rbt]

I would have thought our Toronto Transit Commission would have the copyright and trademark to TTC©™.

Not internationally, just within Canada. And I'm not sure a trademark would hold for this one because there is little risk of confusion between Toyota Technical Center and the Toronto Transit Commission.

 

[Johnny Au]

Why avoid it? Play with it. I took the 506 and 504 cars this morning!

I rarely hear people call streetcars "cars," but if it is more common to do so, then it would be interesting to learn.

Not internationally, just within Canada. And I'm not sure a trademark would hold for this one because there is little risk of confusion between Toyota Technical Center and the Toronto Transit Commission.

Likewise, there is no confusion between compact fluorescent lightbulbs and the Canadian Football League (despite sharing the same acronym).

 

[DavidJamesTO]

I rarely hear people call streetcars "cars," but if it is more common to do so, then it would be interesting to learn.

I'll say "the Queen car" but only if I'm talking to someone who will know that I mean streetcar.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'll say "the Queen car" but only if I'm talking to someone who will know that I mean streetcar.

A bus was originally called (depending upon where in the world, and some still do) omnibus, multibus, or autobus. In Toronto, the trolley bus used to stop at bus stops, not trolley bus stops. Streetcars, however, still stop at car stops.