[Electrify]

Re: TTC

Before we accuse the TTC of being held back by keeping route names, remember that New York (the city this is being based on) uses both numbers/letters and names as well.

Re: GO

Not sure how far back this goes, but they also put up road signs dictating which routes operate. I know on Yonge St north of Crosby in Richmond Hill has a 62 sign for the former Newmarket bus.

 

[DavidH]

Re: GO
Not sure how far back this goes, but they also put up road signs dictating which routes operate. I know on Yonge St north of Crosby in Richmond Hill has a 62 sign for the former Newmarket bus..

If that's a small white sign with black numbering on the side of the road, it indicates you are entering a GO fare zone. Since the zone numbers follow the same general numbering conventions as routes (where the first digit corresponds to a geographic area), they're easily confused. For example, route 92 (Yorkdale-Oshawa) passes through zone 92 (Ajax); the 9 indicates Durham Region.

 

[gweed123]

Re: TTC

Before we accuse the TTC of being held back by keeping route names, remember that New York (the city this is being based on) uses both numbers/letters and names as well.

Re: GO

Not sure how far back this goes, but they also put up road signs dictating which routes operate. I know on Yonge St north of Crosby in Richmond Hill has a 62 sign for the former Newmarket bus.

NYC refers to the piece of infrastructure by name though (ex: the Second Avenue Subway). But since so many routes use so many different pieces of infrastructure, when talking about lines they generally refer to the train numbers or letters.

Chicago does something similar. Downtown you'll hear people refer to the "State Street Subway", but if people are giving directions to get out of downtown it'll be "take the Red Line" (which for those who don't know, uses the State Street Subway through downtown Chicago). Same thing with "The Loop". The piece of infrastructure itself is often referred to, but when people are talking about directions once at one of the loop stations it's all using colour-coded routes.

The TTC seems to be going for something similar. The #1 Train runs on both the Yonge Subway and the University Subway. The former refers to the route, the latter refers to the physical pieces of infrastructure. If the TTC ever decides to run multiple routes on the Yonge-University Subway (short turns, etc), then the numbering scheme will become more important.

 

[car4041]

NYC refers to the piece of infrastructure by name though (ex: the Second Avenue Subway). But since so many routes use so many different pieces of infrastructure, when talking about lines they generally refer to the train numbers or letters.

Names for particular tunnels aside, though, the subway routes in NYC do have names as well, in addition to their number/letter.
3 - 7th Avenue Express
A - 8th Avenue Express
G - Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown
Z - Nassau Street Express
etc.
The number/letter is what people usually use, but the names are still displayed (along with the number) in plenty of places around the system.

 

[Forgotten]

Nice meltdown. I already explained what they're for, maybe if you opened your eyes when walking around TTC stations you would notice that the pictographs already represent unique vehicles. Even the SRT has it's own pictograph. I just updated them.

Yes you did.

Yes, pictographs matter. They are meant to assist people who cannot read English. Differentiating between levels of service is a completely different thing I don't feel like discussing.

Not really, but the current pictograms depict our fleet of T-whatevers and our unique streetcars. Why not update them with the fleet? Or possibly replace them with generic RT and LRT pictograms, there's not much sense in having new signs that depict vehicles that won't exist in a decade.

So are you going to waste more taxpayer money each time a train or bus gets replaced by a new design or use different pictures on Line 1 Yonge and Line 2 Bloor or multiple pictures of each GO train permutation? After all you don't wanna confuse those who can't read!

You dodged every question on each and every completely legitimate scenario where it's demonstrated placating your OCD scheme makes no sense and would end up wasting more money and causing more confusion.

 

[DavidH]

Interestingly in light of the pictograph discussion above, the TTC just posted their new streetcar pictograph on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/bradTTC/status/502530085694767104/photo/1

 

[Fred.S]

Interestingly in light of the pictograph discussion above, the TTC just posted their new streetcar pictograph on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/bradTTC/status/502530085694767104/photo/1

Not bad, however most tram pictograms in the world I find include the pantograph on top, to distinguish it a bit more from a bus or subway. I was hoping the new pictogram would have it as well. It's a small detail, but if anything, makes it a bit more universal.

 

[nfitz]

NYC refers to the piece of infrastructure by name though (ex: the Second Avenue Subway). But since so many routes use so many different pieces of infrastructure, when talking about lines they generally refer to the train numbers or letters.

Certainly, when you start talking to New Yorkers about trains, it's A Train this and 3 Train that. Seldom does anyone mention the actual name of the infrastructure (execpt the Second Avenue subway. And no one ever gives directions that way.

It's also apparent how some, that there have been there a long time, have never mastered the intricacies of the system they use every day - such as when it makes sense to switch to an express. Or perhaps it's just easier to walk that last little bit rather than taking a long tunnel to change and only go one more stop.

 

[Johnny Au]

Don't make me mention the TTC's route 109 Ranee. Much of that bus route doesn't even run on Ranee at all (and half of that bus route runs along Marlee even).

Wikipedia still uses this pictograph for Toronto's streetcar system:

The TTC should adopt this pictograph, since it has an obvious pantograph (and even better, it is free to use). Yes, I know that it is based on the CLRV.

 

[P23]

Interestingly in light of the pictograph discussion above, the TTC just posted their new streetcar pictograph on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/bradTTC/status/502530085694767104/photo/1

Jesus christ that's awful.

 

[P23]

Don't make me mention the TTC's route 109 Ranee. Much of that bus route doesn't even run on Ranee at all (and half of that bus route runs along Marlee even).

Wikipedia still uses this pictograph for Toronto's streetcar system:

The TTC should adopt this pictograph, since it has an obvious pantograph (and even better, it is free to use). Yes, I know that it is based on the CLRV.

That's not much better, I'd rather they just used the generic tram icon used around the world.

 

[Bad Bear]

I think that's a generic train pictograph, not a tram icon.

Btw, I find the new streetcar pictograph horrible. Keep it simple, and what's up with the windshield wiper?

 

[Long Island Mike]

Comparing TTC line names/numbers with NYC Subway and Chicago's CTA routes...

Certainly, when you start talking to New Yorkers about trains, it's A Train this and 3 Train that. Seldom does anyone mention the actual name of the infrastructure (execpt the Second Avenue subway. And no one ever gives directions that way.

It's also apparent how some, that there have been there a long time, have never mastered the intricacies of the system they use every day - such as when it makes sense to switch to an express. Or perhaps it's just easier to walk that last little bit rather than taking a long tunnel to change and only go one more stop.

NF: What you mention is true - NYC Subway riders know know "A Train" more then "8th Avenue Express" or "Number 2 and Number 3 trains"
which are the two express routes serving the Seventh Avenue Line...NYCT assigned colors to each main trunk - the 1,2,3 7th Avenue Lines
are red while the three 8th Avenue Lines A,C,E are blue and the 4,5,6 Lexington Avenue Lines are green...Thankfully the number digit is used
instead of a color name like Chicago's CTA 90s line re-naming...I remember "Dan Ryan Line" more then the "Red Line" S to 95th Street and to
the N the "Howard Line" - and going that route the "Evanston Express" instead of "Purple Line" and "Skokie Swift" instead of "Yellow Line"...

Getting back to NYC one thing that has virtually disappeared is the three NYC Subway divisions there once were:
IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit-today's numbered routes and the Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle)
IND (Independent Subway - Built,owned and operated by the City of New York - A thru H routes)
BMT (Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit - once private - J through R routes)

These three divisions once were autonomous under the NYC Board of Transit-later Transit Authority but
over time they have been merged together to a extent (the BMT and IND use the same equipment) and
some line have been re-routed but the numbered IRT routes remain separate because of their use of
smaller sized equipment and tunnel clearances...

In closing over time things do change - even when you don't readily notice it directly...The numbered TTC
Subway lines are slowly beginning to gain acceptance and use even though I'd rather see the line names
used right alongside the numbers keeping both for use...LI MIKE

 

[W. K. Lis]

For the streetcar pictograph, they should add a pantograph.

For a light rail pictograph, they should add both a pantograph AND a MU coupler.

 

[innsertnamehere]

is it just me or does it seem that nothing is symmetrical in that? the angles all seem slightly off.