[GenerationW]

Do you really think that there will be that much NIMBYism in downtown against a subway?

If anything, the two biggest challenges will be funding and convincing suburbanites that the DRL is needed.

I see the potential for NIMBYism against a DRL by virtue of the fact that most downtown Councilors have ignored the subject. You certainly haven't seen the same apathy from local Councilors regarding Sheppard subway proposals, or Eglinton. I'm also not convinced downtown residents would be universally pro-DRL.

As for funding, Toronto would have difficulty getting anything out of the Province or the Feds for a DRL until at least the early 2020s, and more so if the Yonge extension gets final approval in the last half of this decade (as I think it will). Therefore, a discussion of those pesky other funding options would be required to see how billions of dollars could be raised for a partial or full DRL. And that debate could make what just happened look like a walk in the park.

 

[Palma]

I see the potential for NIMBYism against a DRL by virtue of the fact that most downtown Councilors have ignored the subject. You certainly haven't seen the same apathy from local Councilors regarding Sheppard subway proposals, or Eglinton. I'm also not convinced downtown residents would be universally pro-DRL.

As for funding, Toronto would have difficulty getting anything out of the Province or the Feds for a DRL until at least the early 2020s, and more so if the Yonge extension gets final approval in the last half of this decade (as I think it will). Therefore, a discussion of those pesky other funding options would be required to see how billions of dollars could be raised for a partial or full DRL. And that debate could make what just happened look like a walk in the park.

Plus most people downtown take the streetcar or walk and/or use the subway for a few stops

 

[rbt]

I may have missed something here, but I recall that significant portions of the Richview lands were sold for development last year and a trenched rapid transit line is now simply not ever possible.

I recall it being declared surplus. Other governments and departments have a couple of years to claim it for themselves before the city can actually sell the land.

 

[gweed123]

I see the potential for NIMBYism against a DRL by virtue of the fact that most downtown Councilors have ignored the subject. You certainly haven't seen the same apathy from local Councilors regarding Sheppard subway proposals, or Eglinton. I'm also not convinced downtown residents would be universally pro-DRL.

That's not NIMBYism, that's ignorance.

And yes, there may be a few groups that are against it (maybe some business owners along streets that will be affected by construction), but I think it will be overwhelmingly approved of, much like the tunnelled section of Eglinton. There are a few naysayers, but by and large the community recognizes the need, and wants it.

As for funding, Toronto would have difficulty getting anything out of the Province or the Feds for a DRL until at least the early 2020s, and more so if the Yonge extension gets final approval in the last half of this decade (as I think it will). Therefore, a discussion of those pesky other funding options would be required to see how billions of dollars could be raised for a partial or full DRL. And that debate could make what just happened look like a walk in the park.

I think the discussion about revenue tools that the city will be having soon is going to lead to something. Plus Andy Byford has said point blank that it's time we have a serious talk about the DRL. Plus we have a pro-subway mayor. If Ford does anything right in his term, it could very well be this.

 

[gweed123]

I recall it being declared surplus. Other governments and departments have a couple of years to claim it for themselves before the city can actually sell the land.

I think we need to lobby Metrolinx to claim it then!

 

[car4041]

Plus we have a pro-subway mayor. If Ford does anything right in his term, it could very well be this.

Correction: we have an anti-LRT mayor. He doesn't have some great vision of subways everywhere -- he's just using the promise of impossible subways as a cynical way to derail LRT plans because of his passionate hatred for streetcars.

If Ford suddenly starts to fight for a new downtown subway, I will be VERY surprised. Unless someone somehow proposes to build the DRL using surface LRT. *Then* he'll be all about a subway. Hmm, maybe we should try that...

 

[gweed123]

Correction: we have an anti-LRT mayor. He doesn't have some great vision of subways everywhere -- he's just using the promise of impossible subways as a cynical way to derail LRT plans because of his passionate hatred for streetcars.

If Ford suddenly starts to fight for a new downtown subway, I will be VERY surprised. Unless someone somehow proposes to build the DRL using surface LRT. *Then* he'll be all about a subway. Hmm, maybe we should try that...

"We want surface LRT along King!"
"Like hell you will! I want a subway!"
"...Ok, you win! DRL it is!"

 

[car4041]

"We want surface LRT along King!"
"Like hell you will! I want a subway!"
"...Ok, you win! DRL it is!"

Something like that!

 

[M II A II R II K]

That Metrolinx 2031 plan is supposed to include a new downtown rapid transit line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That's not NIMBYism, that's ignorance.

And yes, there may be a few groups that are against it (maybe some business owners along streets that will be affected by construction), but I think it will be overwhelmingly approved of, much like the tunnelled section of Eglinton. There are a few naysayers, but by and large the community recognizes the need, and wants it.



I think the discussion about revenue tools that the city will be having soon is going to lead to something. Plus Andy Byford has said point blank that it's time we have a serious talk about the DRL. Plus we have a pro-subway mayor. If Ford does anything right in his term, it could very well be this.

From this article (and others) about how the 2nd Avenue construction in New York City is causing businesses to fail (2nd Avenue is a street in Manhattan, which could be confused with Scarborough by some):

Second Avenue businesses struggle as subway construction continues

Almost 20 of the 70 businesses on Second Avenue around 91st and 97th streets have shuttered since construction on the new East Side subway line began three years ago, and the ones that remain are struggling to stay afloat, the Wall Street Journal reported. The numbers come from the Second Avenue Business Association, whose director, Joe Pecora, owns a pizza shop on 92nd Street that he says has been suffering from foot traffic that’s down by nearly a third and reduced parking because of the ongoing construction. The problems have also been compounded by the economic downturn. “We need a break here. Businesses are dropping like flies,†said Pecora, who added that many of his neighboring stores have reported sales declines of up to 50 percent since three years ago. To help wait out the project’s completion, shop owners in the area have been angling for tax abatements and grants that have yet to come to fruition, according to Barry Schneider, who heads up the Second Avenue subway task force of the neighborhood’s community board.

This means businesses along any construction should have a business plan and financial reserves enough to weather the disruption.

 

[Neil]

I think NIMBYism in terms of the DRL would be: "What! Why is it not in my back yard?"

Or front yard for that matter...

 

[W. K. Lis]

Speaking of NIMBYism, I have to pass on this gem of an article on a heavy rail subway in Beverley Hills, from la.streetsblog.org:

Breaking: Metro To Announce New “Westside Heavy Rail†Corridor in Bev. Hills
by Damien Newton

Metro used this picture to illustrate what construction could look like at Beverly Hills High. "We don't have to put one shovel in the ground or even think about going under the high school."

A recent article published at Beverly Hills Weekly posed a question to Metro asking whether or not all of the activism against a Westside Subway route that tunnels under a small part of Beverly Hills High School Campus will matter? Is Metro considering changing the project route?

Streetsblog has learned that the answer, to be announced officially on The Source tomorrow, is an unequivocal yes. To avoid having to tunnel under the high school, Metro is now planning a completely at-grade route for the subway except for the portion that slopes up to 500 feet above ground before cutting through the high school campus.

“It looks like we won’t have to touch the buildings or put one shovel in the ground,†explains Metro spokesman David Meiger. “True, we have to completely demolish the track field and parking structure, but the above-grade giant cement wall dissecting the campus will insure that the train and students don’t mix.â€

Some other changes to the design and route were added just to make Beverly Hills Residents happier with the project. “Adding eight stops in Beverly Hills, that was my idea,†Meiger beams. “To make certain the train has maximum visibility, we will be putting the stations along Robertson and Santa Monica Boulevards.†Renderings of the new route were completed by Broad Architects and are available after the jump.

Metro is also moving the Westside Heavy Rail rail yard to a residential part of Beverly Hills, “bringing solid middle income jobs to the community.†A last touch is that Metro vows to run the heavy rail “24 hours a day†between the Beverly Hills’ stops so that all residents can use the rail whenever they need.

Black circles are the new station areas. The pentagram is the new rail yard. The black lines are the outline of Beverly Hills High School.

Oddly, not all residents were happy with the news. Mayor Pro Tem John Mirisch seemed most distressed by the new proposal, despite his long-stated opposition to tunneling under the high school.

“For goodness sake, they put the new ‘rail yard’ right where my house used to be,†Mirisch exclaimed when showed the maps. “Can they even run a train 24-hours a day? Wouldn’t they have to do a sound-based environmental review?â€

Metro has an answer to both Mirisch’s complaints. According to spokesperson April Feuel noted that “To make it up to him, we’ve added a station right across the street from his parent’s house.†Other stations are planned for each side of the Beverly Hills City Hall and a giant station surrounding the Beverly Hills Courier offices.

She also noted that a study of the “additional supplements to the regional noise†Metro will begin running fully-loaded freight trucks through the streets, both through streets and residences, of Beverly Hills starting tonight at midnight.

“We know there are some subway fans that are going to be disappointed that we abandoned the underground portion for this area,†Meiger adds. “If someone wants to support the old alignment, they should contact us at 1-800-go-mero. Please call between 9 A.M. and 5 P.M.â€

Posted April 1st, 2012.

 

[Justin10000]

^^ :lol: Quality.

 

[Electrify]

You know, if Rob Ford was a smart man (which he's not) and the money was available for the Sheppard extension (which it wasn't), he could have promoted the regional benefits of having the line end at Scarborough Town Centre, positioning it as a gateway to Durham. DRT's BRT corridor is planned to run along Ellesmere before terminating at the mall, thus ensuring that eastern Scarborough is not neglected. Under the MOU from STC one could take Sheppard line + connections to get to central and northern parts of the GTA, and the Eglinton line + connections to get downtown and to southern parts of the GTA.

Whether they decide to terminate the line at Morningside now is yet to be seen.

Another interesting point is that stop spacing along the line is set to be about 800-1000 metres, yet will reach average speeds of about 30km/h. This contrasts with the TTC's claims that if Transit City stops reflected this kind of stop spacing, it would operate at 27km/h at best. How come they can operate a BRT at subway like speeds, but the TTC cannot do the same for its LRT?

Source: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...FpGIs0qftEcDsMMrQ&sig2=JWGjLs-cMWS_efb8OHOOOw (PDF file)

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

Whether they decide to terminate the line at Morningside now is yet to be seen.

Another interesting point is that stop spacing along the line is set to be about 800-1000 metres, yet will reach average speeds of about 30km/h. This contrasts with the TTC's claims that if Transit City stops reflected this kind of stop spacing, it would operate at 27km/h at best. How come they can operate a BRT at subway like speeds, but the TTC cannot do the same for its LRT?

Source: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...FpGIs0qftEcDsMMrQ&sig2=JWGjLs-cMWS_efb8OHOOOw (PDF file)

Uh that source pretty clearly says that the full BRT option would have an average speed of 27 km/h.