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He campaigned on the ideas behind Transit City during the 2006 election (surface LRT in the suburbs instead of subways), and enacted it in 2007 after the election.

Personally I was always opposed to Transit City because it once again screwed the old City of Toronto in favour of the suburbs ... but what do you expect from a suburban mayor like Miller?
Sheppard has always been the controversial route in Transit City. Now that I've reread my post, I think it should be better worded by saying, "He'd have more support/less opposition if he planned Transit City around a DRL (maybe adding the Crosstown in there as well), instead of putting his hand onto the hot-potato called Sheppard."
 
It wasn't ever presented as the next 10 to 15 years of transit-building. Only the LRT plan. Other avenues were also pursued at the same time, such as the Spadina extension, Yonge extension, DRL, express buses, and various BRTs.
Spadina -- Miller lobbied against it, and Spadina was a done-deal in his first term anyway so it's largely irrelevant to TC era (post 2006)
Yonge -- Giambrone was most definitely against it, and one would assume Miller was as well
DRL -- only sent to be studied after York Region seemed to be on the verge of winning funding for Yonge, otherwise totally ignored

Hard not see big lines on a big map unveiled at a big press conference as anything other than setting priorities for a big long-range plan of capital transit projects. If everyone since 2007 had been totally on board with Transit City, TC projects would obviously eat up most if not all of whatever funding came our way for the following 10-15 years, and the chances of starting a DRL in the next 5-10 years, which are slim enough now, would have been next to nil.
 
Spadina -- Miller lobbied against it
He didn't vote against the Spadina extension being the prioritized in the February 1, 2005 council meeting. And even if it wasn't his first personal priority, he didn't then spend his term trying to scupper council's will.
 
He didn't vote against the Spadina extension being the prioritized in the February 1, 2005 council meeting. And even if it wasn't his first personal priority, he didn't then spend his term trying to scupper council's will.
Never said that he did, and he was wise to vote for it after he realized there was no point fighting against Ottawa, Queen's Park and York Region.
 
The whole idea SHOULD have been to set proper priorities. Transit City, which ostensibly laid out the next 10-15 years of transit-building in Toronto, completely ignored a DRL (arguably our #1 local priority) and elevated a Sheppard LRT close to the top of the list. That made no sense.

Growing traffic is a city wide issue. Likely a plan to deliver only a DRL would have received no council support and without council support the province wouldn't have come to the table. Sheppard, Finch West, and Eglinton were clearly the routes within the Transit City plan that had the higher ridership and of all the shortlisted 3 routes Sheppard had the shortest delivery time due to not requiring significant tunneling, no river crossings, and the least complicated route. All 3 really started going through the process of study and planning right away but Sheppard was the quickest to be able to deliver. It would have been completed in about a year from now but to save money Metrolinx has delayed everything to 2020.

Being against a Yonge extension from a city council perspective is a no brainer, it only makes sense in a regional context. It would create greater pressure on an overloaded system with the city residents bearing the brunt of the lower quality service since they would be last onto the vehicle and left to pick up the cost of dealing with the capacity constraint. The DRL was a plan even under Miller and you can find reference to it in the Don Mills corridor study documents, it just wasn't put as the top priority. Transit City, a push to get new ridership onto transit and out of cars across the city was the focus and the DRL was a project that had the optics of being downtown focused and also wouldn't bring as many new riders.
 
Ottawa, Queen's Park, and York Region? The 2005 vote was well before any of those 3 agreed to fund it.
It was definitely before the public knew those 3 agreed to fund it, but media stories started appearing in 2005 that Spadina was the choice, and Miller was no doubt smart enough to figure out before the Feb. 2005 vote that his professional and publicly stated preference had already lost the race.

Growing traffic is a city wide issue. Likely a plan to deliver only a DRL would have received no council support and without council support the province wouldn't have come to the table. Sheppard, Finch West, and Eglinton were clearly the routes within the Transit City plan that had the higher ridership and of all the shortlisted 3 routes Sheppard had the shortest delivery time due to not requiring significant tunneling, no river crossings, and the least complicated route. All 3 really started going through the process of study and planning right away but Sheppard was the quickest to be able to deliver. It would have been completed in about a year from now but to save money Metrolinx has delayed everything to 2020.
A year (or two?) after Transit City was unveiled, the Province came to the table with $12 billion (later reduced to $8.4B), but instead of the usual deal of tying funding to a specific project(s), they told us we could spend it however we wanted. They had given us the closest thing to transit heaven.

As for the 2006-10 Council, one that most would agree was more downtown-centric than the current one, I suspect the chances of them voting down a new subway line would have been virtually zero, especially since the first phase of a DRL ($3.2 billion I believe is the current estimate for Spadina to Pape) would have left around $5 billion for an SRT replacement and other projects, enough to satisfy the suburbs and pro-LRT people.

The DRL was a plan even under Miller and you can find reference to it in the Don Mills corridor study documents, it just wasn't put as the top priority. Transit City, a push to get new ridership onto transit and out of cars across the city was the focus and the DRL was a project that had the optics of being downtown focused and also wouldn't bring as many new riders.
Which makes it even worse. That such a huge priority like the DRL was completely omitted despite being studied shows what a horrible decision they made, especially since the chances of getting billions thrown at us again any time soon are likely pretty remote.
 
A year (or two?) after Transit City was unveiled, the Province came to the table with $12 billion (later reduced to $8.4B), but instead of the usual deal of tying funding to a specific project(s), they told us we could spend it however we wanted. They had given us the closest thing to transit heaven.

They came to the table because Toronto had a plan and it was appropriately pitched to a government that was supportive of transit as a social service and economic development method. Other governments less committed to transit will pay for transit that must be built due to overloading, but it takes a government that believes in transit to come to the table for a "transit for everyone" program. That money would be wasted on a DRL when even a conservative government and conservative mayor would be convinced to fund that.

Which makes it even worse. That such a huge priority like the DRL was completely omitted despite being studied shows what a horrible decision they made, especially since the chances of getting billions thrown at us again any time soon are likely pretty remote.

You can't operate a city where the priority gets all the focus, and the other services are forgotten. When you look at transit as being a tiered service there are layers such as metro, LRT, and bus (others handled by the province), and there are geographies. You can't leave one part of the city or one part of the system with nothing because something else has been deemed a priority. To take it to an extreme you could say we should stop paying for surface routes and focus on the DRL. It is the same argument used against art spending, economic development, tourism, etc because there is problem ____ in the city where the money should be spent instead. A city doesn't work like that, the whole city needs to be able to grow, become more efficient, and have economic development. A subway extension was already under construction, no LRT was being built and streetcars were old, and bus service needed improvement. With a subway under construction the focus was on the other two services which serve more NEW riders per dollar. The DRL was still on the radar as Bloor-Yonge was nearing capacity, but the DRL is primarily a "RL", a relief-line, whose purpose is not to bring new riders but to deal with capacity and as such when the requirement for the DRL arrives there will be little challenge getting funding as compared to service improvements elsewhere. The bus service improvements Miller implemented have already been clawed back by the current administration because as long as a service has some capacity it is possible to claw it back and let end users suffer with lower quality of service. It is a lot harder to push back on a situation where on a daily basis people are not able to fit on the vehicle. Once the DRL is in the news as a requirement to keep the city running there will be no issue getting funding for it, and Transit City's east-west routes combined with York Region's priority Yonge extension will bring that money to the table quickly.
 
That's an nice, practical little piece on governance, Enviro. With the Gardiner about to fall down and the DRL finally on the agenda, now is the moment for grown-ups to start leading (and voting) on transportation in Toronto. I wonder if it will happen.
 
They came to the table because Toronto had a plan and it was appropriately pitched to a government that was supportive of transit as a social service and economic development method. Other governments less committed to transit will pay for transit that must be built due to overloading, but it takes a government that believes in transit to come to the table for a "transit for everyone" program. That money would be wasted on a DRL when even a conservative government and conservative mayor would be convinced to fund that.
I'll agree that McGuinty's was the first re-elected government to support local Toronto transit at a decent level since the Bill Davis years, but they have repeatedly said that they will fund any projects to the tune of $8 billion as long as it is the will of Council. As long as we weren't proposing anything frivolous (clearly not applicable to the DRL), they could care less about the details, other than, apparently, having Metrolinx involved. And I seriously doubt it was our having a plan that spurred the Province into action, especially since the Big Move was an Ontario-wide initiative.

It's hard to get my head around anyone say that building our number one local transit priority would be a waste. If Eglinton and the SRT rebuild are already eating up about 75% of our allotted $8.4 billion funding, how exactly would $3B for the first phase of a DRL (in place of Eglinton for the sake of argument) have been in violation of "transit for everyone"?

You can't operate a city where the priority gets all the focus, and the other services are forgotten. When you look at transit as being a tiered service there are layers such as metro, LRT, and bus (others handled by the province), and there are geographies. You can't leave one part of the city or one part of the system with nothing because something else has been deemed a priority. To take it to an extreme you could say we should stop paying for surface routes and focus on the DRL. It is the same argument used against art spending, economic development, tourism, etc because there is problem ____ in the city where the money should be spent instead. A city doesn't work like that, the whole city needs to be able to grow, become more efficient, and have economic development. A subway extension was already under construction, no LRT was being built and streetcars were old, and bus service needed improvement. With a subway under construction the focus was on the other two services which serve more NEW riders per dollar. The DRL was still on the radar as Bloor-Yonge was nearing capacity, but the DRL is primarily a "RL", a relief-line, whose purpose is not to bring new riders but to deal with capacity and as such when the requirement for the DRL arrives there will be little challenge getting funding as compared to service improvements elsewhere. The bus service improvements Miller implemented have already been clawed back by the current administration because as long as a service has some capacity it is possible to claw it back and let end users suffer with lower quality of service. It is a lot harder to push back on a situation where on a daily basis people are not able to fit on the vehicle. Once the DRL is in the news as a requirement to keep the city running there will be no issue getting funding for it, and Transit City's east-west routes combined with York Region's priority Yonge extension will bring that money to the table quickly.
Nice speech and all, but you also should not operate a city where the priority gets NONE of the focus. Miller and Giambrone, after careful consideration, deemed a DRL not only to not be a high priority, but no priority at all. They had a blank slate, and billions in the pipeline from a friendly provincial government, yet they completely ignored it. That oversight is impossible to ignore.

In the past we've built lines, added to them incrementally, while at the same time increasing service on bus and streetcar lines. Ford aside, I fail to see how a DRL would have changed that. There's nothing in a DRL that says we would have to ignore surface routes, otherwise why build it at all?

As for clawing back some bus service, that's an operational and budgetary issue at the city level. Saying a DRL would cause us to neglect surface routes is a ridiculous as saying those bus reductions should be blamed on building Eglinton.

I also challenge the contention that there will be no issue getting funding for a DRL whenever we want. There will in fact be a massive challenge. The idea that the extra stress put on Yonge due to the new LRT lines will force the Province to come to the table is risky at best, and totally foolish at worst, especially if the Province is still running up big deficits. Never mind the small issue of inconveniencing people using our busiest line for many more years to come.

Not buying that a DRL would just be a relief line, or that it would not attract new riders. But even if those were true, it's still our main priority, and one that could have and should have been addressed by M&G under conditions where their goal of addressing other parts of the city was still feasible.
 
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It's hard to get my head around anyone say that building our number one local transit priority would be a waste. If Eglinton and the SRT rebuild are already eating up about 75% of our allotted $8.4 billion funding, how exactly would $3B for the first phase of a DRL (in place of Eglinton for the sake of argument) have been in violation of "transit for everyone"?

It would not be transit for everyone because the DRL is downtown where there are already subways nearby, and new streetcars are about to ply the streets. A DRL puts transit within reach of people who already have some of the shortest commutes and some of the best transit options in the GTA. In comparison transit is awful in the places where the LRT routes would reach. If you have a once in a blue moon chance to improve transit for the city as a whole it is a waste to spend that money on the project that would get funding under any administration.

Miller and Giambrone, after careful consideration, deemed a DRL not only to not be a high priority, but no priority at all. They had a blank slate, and billions in the pipeline from a friendly provincial government, yet they completely ignored it. That oversight is impossible to ignore.

That is untrue. A DRL was deemed to be a requirement of a Yonge line extension and a means to get Don Mills LRT users into the core. That isn't ignoring a DRL, it is stating that under certain loads a DRL becomes necessary.

In the past we've built lines, added to them incrementally, while at the same time increasing service on bus and streetcar lines. Ford aside, I fail to see how a DRL would have changed that. There's nothing in a DRL that says we would have to ignore surface routes, otherwise why build it at all?

I'm not saying that... that is what you are saying. You are saying that in order to fund a DRL that surface routes such as Transit City should have been sacrificed. I'm saying that that makes no sense as they serve completely different purposes. It is one thing to sacrifice one suburban LRT project to an under-served neighbourhood for another suburban LRT project to an under-served neighbourhood, and quite another to sacrifice a suburban LRT project for a downtown subway line. The outer reaches of the city also need economic development, growth, and transit.

I also challenge the contention that there will be no issue getting funding for a DRL whenever we want. There will in fact be a massive challenge. The idea that the extra stress put on Yonge due to the new LRT lines will force the Province to come to the table is risky at best, and totally foolish at worst, especially if the Province is still running up big deficits. Never mind the small issue of inconveniencing people using our busiest line for many more years to come.

Name a government that didn't spend money on a project. The same people are running Metrolinx and the province now as 2-3 years ago and now the DRL is not only in the 15 year plan... it is in the Top Priority Plan. Do you believe an equivalent restructuring of priorities could have occurred to make Finch West the top priority of the whole GTA? Finch West is a city building and economic development exercise, not a capacity emergency. The DRL is designed to deal with overload and if the existing routes were not overloading there would be no DRL plan. Since the DRL is dealing with an overload future governments cannot ignore it.

Not buying that a DRL would just be a relief line, or that it would not attract new riders.

Built in the densest part of the city, the DRL will be the most expensive subway line that gets built in our lifetime. It will run from Pape where people already have a subway, through neighbourhoods with 10 minutes to downtown streetcar service, to other subway stations downtown. The commute times for people in these areas is already some of the lowest in the GTA so why would the DRL be important from a locals point of view? For non-locals this is a way to avoid the Yonge line and if the Yonge line was well under capacity what would be the point of going downtown via Leslieville versus Yorkville? There would be no point.

But even if those were true, it's still our main priority, and one that could have and should have been addressed by M&G under conditions where their goal of addressing other parts of the city was still feasible.

The DRL would consume all the money. As it is there wasn't enough money to implement Transit City in its entirety. The DRL and SRT are the priorities from an overloading and maintaining status-quo perspective, but are not the priorities from a transit expansion and economic development standpoint. The DRL and SRT money is easier to get from whatever government is in power because not providing that money doesn't meet the status-quo, it allows service levels to plummet. Economic development money is harder to get with each government having their own priorities and pet projects.
 
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It would not be transit for everyone because the DRL is downtown where there are already subways nearby, and new streetcars are about to ply the streets. A DRL puts transit within reach of people who already have some of the shortest commutes and some of the best transit options in the GTA. In comparison transit is awful in the places where the LRT routes would reach. If you have a once in a blue moon chance to improve transit for the city as a whole it is a waste to spend that money on the project that would get funding under any administration.
This "transit for everyone" is such an nebulous term. It's ALL for everyone.

A DRL would help those with longer commutes, not just people downtown. Not to mention that, as Adam Giambrone noted in a recent issue of NOW (coming late to the party), it is in our interests to start the DRL sooner rather than later due to ever-escalating costs. And again, I reject the notion that funding for a DRL is anything close to a sure thing.

And "awful" transit connotes having very little of it. I'll easily grant that areas suffer mainly due to (lack of) speed and congestion, but where exactly in Toronto is it awful strictly due to lack of service? I live in the suburbs so I know there are issues here, but I must have missed those many busy streets around me where one has to constantly wait 30+ minutes during rush hour in fair weather.

That is untrue. A DRL was deemed to be a requirement of a Yonge line extension and a means to get Don Mills LRT users into the core. That isn't ignoring a DRL, it is stating that under certain loads a DRL becomes necessary.
Sorry, but THAT is untrue. A DRL was studied and completely ignored by Transit City in 2007, and was only sent for study AFTER York Region's push for a Yonge extension in 2008-9 gained rapid momentum. Interest in a DRL was totally reactive rather than proactive.

Name a government that didn't spend money on a project. The same people are running Metrolinx and the province now as 2-3 years ago and now the DRL is not only in the 15 year plan... it is in the Top Priority Plan. Do you believe an equivalent restructuring of priorities could have occurred to make Finch West the top priority of the whole GTA? Finch West is a city building and economic development exercise, not a capacity emergency. The DRL is designed to deal with overload and if the existing routes were not overloading there would be no DRL plan. Since the DRL is dealing with an overload future governments cannot ignore it.
I can't share that optimism. Plans are great and all, but future governments can ignore anything, especially if they can't balance their budgets. We also have the experience of previous governments somehow managing to not fund the better part of most of Toronto's capital transit plans for the last 25+ years before Transit City. It's much more practical to get while the getting is good, and when we get $8 billion thrown our way, logic says start to build the #1 priority. And it would still have been more than possible to build Finch West in the process.

Built in the densest part of the city, the DRL will be the most expensive subway line that gets built in our lifetime. It will run from Pape where people already have a subway, through neighbourhoods with 10 minutes to downtown streetcar service, to other subway stations downtown. The commute times for people in these areas is already some of the lowest in the GTA so why would the DRL be important from a locals point of view? For non-locals this is a way to avoid the Yonge line and if the Yonge line was well under capacity what would be the point of going downtown via Leslieville versus Yorkville? There would be no point.
If the Yonge line was well under capacity??? Are we talking about fantasies now?

The DRL would consume all the money. As it is there wasn't enough money to implement Transit City in its entirety. The DRL and SRT are the priorities from an overloading and maintaining status-quo perspective, but are not the priorities from a transit expansion and economic development standpoint. The DRL and SRT money is easier to get from whatever government is in power because not providing that money doesn't meet the status-quo, it allows service levels to plummet. Economic development money is harder to get with each government having their own priorities and pet projects.
The DRL would consume all the money if we were to build it from Dundas West to Eglinton in one shot. That I never said.

Based on previous transit plans, anyone who really expected TC to be implemented in its entirety clearly didn't live in reality.

Economic development money is "harder to get", and the SRT and (especially) the DRL don't count as economic development? Nice theory, but ALL upper-level government money is hard to get (tell me when the next $8 billion of transit money is scheduled to come our way), and the DRL would surely transform parts of the city for the better.
 
I am starting to wonder if there is an economic case for converting Sheppard to LRT. Would the savings on the eventual Western extension offset the cost of conversion?
 

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