DKsan
Active Member
I, ahem, use the St. Clair streetcar to transfer between the University/Spadina side and the Yonge side to avoid transferring at the hellhole that is Bloor-Yonge during rush hour.
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- Thread starter hawc
- Start date
Jaye101
Active Member
That hydro line right-of-way continuing west of Scarlett Road next to Dundas Street West, (eastward would the hydro line continuing north along St. Clair) used to be the right-of-way for the Toronto Suburban’s Guelph Division radial line that ran from Keele and St. Clair all the way to Guelph.
BTW. The wooden bridge over the Humber River (used by bicycles) just north of Dundas Street West are the bridge supports for the radial streetcar bridge viaduct over the river.
Very interesting, thank you for that!
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Surely this isn't true, and can be discounted due to its right wing source http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10521786
Surely, the St. Clair ROW was designed to accommodate the future street cars? There's only a few years spread between the completion of the ROW and the launch of the new streetcars; so surely someone asked if the new ROW will match the new vehicles?
Surely, the St. Clair ROW was designed to accommodate the future street cars? There's only a few years spread between the completion of the ROW and the launch of the new streetcars; so surely someone asked if the new ROW will match the new vehicles?
rbt
Senior Member
It probably is true. The new streetcars were not ordered until after St. Clair was tendered (some parts were complete) and those would have been contract changes.
Nobody mentioned the wiring on St. Clair was also not compatible with a pantograph. It was close, but some locations still required adjustment.
I would guess it's the same platform height problem that San Diego went through. The extending wheelchair ramps require a surprisingly exact and spacious landing spot. I watched them raise many of their platforms by less than an inch last year.
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DSC
Superstar
The ROW was planned before the final design of the streetcars and their ramps was finalised. The height of some of the platforms on St clair apparently needs to be adjusted (up and down). Big deal!
Admiral Beez
Superstar
rbt
Senior Member
That's a great question in itself.
It's entirely possible they did but Bombardier said it will cost $X (elevators for wheelchair rather than ramps) which was more than the city expected to pay to make modifications to the platforms.
The above is pure speculation but may have happened. Are the platforms being adjusted from early in the St. Clair project or late in the project, or is it effectively random?
I've made modifications to the shape of a room because of airflow changes in a new stack of computers. It was cheaper to move the wall than get a different case design. As you might imagine, the rider on the tender to management was conveniently ignored so it came as a surprise to them despite being very well documented and even included in the full cost.
Or it might be an oversight like with the Toronto Rockets kicking up dust storms because of the new air-conditioner placement. Someone did drop the ball and didn't consult engineers working on the new St. Clair.
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nfitz
Superstar
Probably for the same reason that I didn't buy a dryer that would fit through the door to the laundry room without taking off the door trim and stairrail bannister.
Because it was a lot easier and cheaper just to temporarily move some wood, than find a drier at a decent price that was a half-an-inch narrower.
The city replaces concrete on sidewalks all the time ... I doubt most people will even notice this happening.
Voltz
Senior Member
But of course, commentators on a Newstalk 1010 this morning (that I almost never listen to) were ranting and raving about a second wave of the St Clair Disaster, and acting like the entire project would need to be ripped up and replaced.
JayBeeGooner
Active Member
No wonder I don't listen to CFRB 1010. They're making out as if the entire street is going to be ripped up again. Yeesh!
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Before any TTC was formed and arrived, the Toronto Street Railway Company used narrow devil strips (the space between two sets of tracks) because they had narrow streetcars. With the wider Peter Witt streetcars, the Toronto Transportation Commission relaid the tracks to create a wider devil strip, to provide proper clearance.
The original Yonge Subway was built for a train of eight 57-foot Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon cars. It was designed for a ten-car train of 48-foot cars, but found it could fit in the longer cars in the tunnels.
When the University extension was built, however, they went for even longer cars. The six car trains from Montreal Locomotive Works were 75-feet long. However, to fit them into the tunnels, they had to do modifications to the system. That involved moving the signals, scrapping some concrete off some walls. and shifting other infrastructure, so the longer cars just miss scrapping by.
The original Yonge Subway was built for a train of eight 57-foot Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon cars. It was designed for a ten-car train of 48-foot cars, but found it could fit in the longer cars in the tunnels.
When the University extension was built, however, they went for even longer cars. The six car trains from Montreal Locomotive Works were 75-feet long. However, to fit them into the tunnels, they had to do modifications to the system. That involved moving the signals, scrapping some concrete off some walls. and shifting other infrastructure, so the longer cars just miss scrapping by.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Although this is a sign of poor planning at the TTC, WK Lis is right. This is hardly unusual and isn't a huge deal.
nfitz
Superstar
Poor planning? The St. Clair design was completed in 2004, with some minor modifications in 2006. The first stops were completed in February 2007. The new streetcars weren't ordered until June 2009, and the design wasn't finalized until 2011 (if it is indeed it is actually finalized now!).
Poor planning would have been to spend extra money when St. Clair was first built, for vehicles that might never have actually been ordered.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
You might be right Nftiz and there has been no significant planning error(s) and making the ROW compatible with the new vehicles is a minor adjustment that no one will notice.
Not everyone here shares your optimism and faith in the city's planners though. So, I for one hope you are 100% spot on.
Not everyone here shares your optimism and faith in the city's planners though. So, I for one hope you are 100% spot on.
Solid Snake
Active Member
wouldn't be surprise but the streetcar line will be shutdown like on Spadina. Bus service on St.clair will make the transit on that avenue a nightmare.
No need to overthink it. It's gross incompetence from whoever used to be there.