[Chuck]

I have two complaints. Firstly, it would have been nice had the driving lanes and even the tracks been a little more straight, and less curvy. It can be a bit dodgy driving through certain intersections. This problem is caused mainly by left turn lanes.

Secondly, I find the right of way to appear very clunky. Lining the ROW with curbs rather than raising the trackbed 6 inches above the road would have helped. Ideally it would have blended in more with its surroundings.

Overall it's a big improvement for transit, and even traffic seems to flow nicely. As a transit user myself, there are neighbourhoods along St. Clair that I visit today that I certainly would not have bothered going to without the ROW.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

To be fair, that stretch was just a bunch of useless grass for no reason whatsoever.

Before that it was a rail siding serving the Stockyards and the packing plants along that stretch. Given that St. Clair is 4 lanes further west, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a needless choke point.

The real shame, I think, is that the ROW was not completed to Scarlett/Dundas or, ideally, beyond.

 

[hawc]

Someone on here should take the issue of signal priority to their councillor or a city planner to get this done. Sound like it would help a lot.

 

[drum118]

Someone on here should take the issue of signal priority to their councillor or a city planner to get this done. Sound like it would help a lot.

Talk to Steve Munro and read this site stevemunro.ca. You will find out that he has spoken to all levels of the city on this matter with no luck.

I and others have raised the issue at TTC monthly meeting and TTC cannot get the City to turn Spadina signal priority on.

I know the traffic engineer for this St Clair widening project, as I have worked with him for 5 years on the various waterfront EA's and transit signal priority not on his radar. He is a jerk.

As for taking the line to Scarlett/Dundas or, ideally, beyond, its on TTC books since the Scarlett bridge is being rebuilt with an ROW in it in the coming years. One plan sees the line going to Kipling with another one to the airport. It cost money to do this and there is no money in the current 10 year budget plan.

The current St Clair was to be a showcase for rest of the city lines and extension and you saw what happen there. Sheppard was to become the showcase now and look what happen there.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Probably worth it in the local sense -- it's improved St. Clair and surrounding environs -- but not worth it in the broader, political sense, as it was all the troubles associated with this project that contributed to the atmosphere that elected Rob Ford and killed on-street LRT projects for years to come.

 

[jwill]

I wonder how long that feeling will last though. Eventually people will forget the cost and schedule overruns and simply see the project as built. I think St Clair along with Roncesvalles, Queens Quay, and Cherry St. will become a showcase for modern streetcar/light rail projects, showing a good degree of variation and adaptability, and hopefully continuing to attract private investment.

 

[nfitz]

When I last lived in Toronto in 1990, there seemed to be no end of bitching in the media about the Spadina LRT and the loss of parking ... but by the time I returned in 2004, it all seemed very positive. Was it positive in 1997 when it opened? Or did it take time.

 

[hawc]

Eventually people will forget the cost and schedule overruns and simply see the project as built.

Unless your business went under during all the construction from lack of customers. I guess that wouldn't be as easy to forget.

 

[k10ery]

Probably worth it in the local sense -- it's improved St. Clair and surrounding environs -- but not worth it in the broader, political sense, as it was all the troubles associated with this project that contributed to the atmosphere that elected Rob Ford and killed on-street LRT projects for years to come.

But that's just the spin. As you know very well, the "horrendous" cost overruns on St Clair wouldn't pay for one half of a single subway station of Ford's fantasy subway line. I wish the media had said that more often. But if the Car People had not had St Clair to complain about, they would have just made up something else instead.

 

[Electrify]

Whether it was worth it or not, it is a bit of a missed opportunity. For the time and money put into the line, it should have been a full LRT rather than a dedicated lane for local streetcars. Just look at the stops, it's as if it was trying to be a full LRT, but just fell short due to politics and planning. All door boarding will help a lot, but fewer stops (with local bus service in between) and signal priority could have made this into a proper semi-rapid transit line.

Thinking even further, along with the Bloor and future Eglinton rapid transit lines, we could have had a number of excellent transit options for getting across the north-central part of the city. Plus if the appeal of the line grew enough, a case could be made for extending east through the Don Valley and into Scarborough.

 

[Electrify]

But every stop is well patronized. How is taking out stop going to improve service?

Faster, more reliable and attractive service.
Lower infrastructure costs, money saved which could be used to provide parallel local service.
Increased safety due to more people at each stop.
More comfortable ride.

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[hawc]

Fewer stops (with local bus service in between) and signal priority could have made this into a proper semi-rapid transit line.

Wait. What?

You would run buses on the street right beside the LRT streetcars?

 

[drum118]

Faster, more reliable and attractive service.
Lower infrastructure costs, money saved which could be used to provide parallel local service.
Increased safety due to more people at each stop.
More comfortable ride.

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

Have you ridden the line every day at all hours and if so, you would see a dozen different travel pattern for the line?

The amount of riders getting on at Gunns Loop and going to Yonge St is only a speck in the total amount of riders for the line. Same can be said for many stops

There should be 3 less stops than what there is there today. Otherwise, the stop spacing is right.

If you look at Deerrun stop, you can walk to Yonge faster than wait for a car. It see very few riders at all.

One of the 2 stops between Dufferin and Oakwood should be removed.

Vaughan stop should be removed.

The amount of riders going from loop to loop is a drop in the bucket to what take place between them. Only the Yonge to St Clair W loop sees more riders than in between.

Your comment {Faster, more reliable and attractive service.} is not true for a street like St Clair when traffic still plays a big part in how the line operates.

Then you have TTC drivers who don't care about schedules to the point they have all the cars backup at one end of the line.

People want reliable service and they are getting more of that today than when the line ran in mix traffic. TTC is using less cars to move the same amount of riders in mix traffic today. Then TTC doesn't have that many extra cars to add to the line at this time.

 

[Voltz]

Whether it was worth it or not, it is a bit of a missed opportunity. For the time and money put into the line, it should have been a full LRT rather than a dedicated lane for local streetcars. Just look at the stops, it's as if it was trying to be a full LRT, but just fell short due to politics and planning. All door boarding will help a lot, but fewer stops (with local bus service in between) and signal priority could have made this into a proper semi-rapid transit line.

Thinking even further, along with the Bloor and future Eglinton rapid transit lines, we could have had a number of excellent transit options for getting across the north-central part of the city. Plus if the appeal of the line grew enough, a case could be made for extending east through the Don Valley and into Scarborough.

I think there is way to much local demand to make St Clair in to any kind of an express route, which would not really be 'express' anyway due to all the intersections it needs to cross.

 

[Justin10000]

Faster, more reliable and attractive service.

The service is already pretty quick. How many minutes are you going to save? 1 -2 max?

Lower infrastructure costs, money saved which could be used to provide parallel local service.

It's going to cost more to run a parallel bus service over years, than the upfront costs of building a stop.

Increased safety due to more people at each stop.

The neighbourhood isn't that bad! Yeesh...

More comfortable ride.

It's a streetcar, how much more comfortable can it get?

I cannot see those as reasons for inconveniencing riders, just so the few at the end stops get a slightly quicker ride. There is strong local demand, even Deer Park is busy during the peak period.

And what is the point of running a parallel service along a surface rail route. Truly a waste of funds.