[Monarch Butterfly]

Yes, it's a matter of time before streetcars go battery powered but given how slowly the TTC and the city move on anything, I wouldn't count on it happening soon.

Even if the existing fleet were outfitted with batteries so we didn't have to wait 40 years for the fleet to be replaced, and even if the entire fleet were capable of running independent of overhead power, it could be decades before the city took down existing wiring. They've kept a goddamn pole at Union Station that has no use but has been sitting there unused for 15 years. So give up on that dream. Toronto will be full of overhead wiring for your lifetime.

The batteries have to be able not catch fire. They are working on solutions, but will take time.

 

[T3G]

So give up on that dream. Toronto will be full of overhead wiring for your lifetime.

Thank God.

 

[reaperexpress]

All these people who dream of eliminating the overhead electrification we already have clearly havent thought through the amount of energy losses involved with charging and discharging batteries (much higher energy loss than just running the train directly off the grid), the infrastructure maintenance consequences of making streetcars much heavier, nor the energy efficiency and acceleration penalty of lugging around heavy batteries, or the financial cost of purchasing such a large quantity of batteries every couple decades. Battery-electric vehicles may be more cost effective than diesel, but they are not more cost-effective than overhead electric when you already have the overhead electrification in place.

The efficiency of battery-electric buses and streetcars always limited by charging opportunities. The more opportunity you have to charge the vehicle along the route, the smaller your battery can be, with corresponding improvements in energy efficiency, vehicle cost and acceleration. The ideal would be in-motion trickle charging, which requires continuous overhead electrification for a decent portion of the route. The absolute worst is fast-charging, since you first need to charge a wayside battery for the charger (since you can't suddenly connect a huge peak load directly to the grid) with energy losses, then that charger needs to charge the streetcar, with even more energy losses, and finally the battery needs to be used to operate the streetcar with all the usual energy losses.

There are definitely some cost savings to be had by adding small batteries to streetcars, but it would be by removing some of the overhead wires in yards and non-revenue / diversion track, not by dismantling a large proportion of the overhead wire on the network.

 

[nightstreak]

View attachment 716973

Why would someone get off the 501 streetcar at Moss Park Station or Queen-Spadina, spend 5 minutes to get downstairs to the corresponding Ontario Line Station, wait 5 minutes, ride 1 or 2 stations, and spend another 5 minutes to get upstairs to the street or transfer to Line 1? They could stay on the streetcar for the get to Osgoode or Queen Station to transfer to Line 1, for example. The Ontario Line is deep underground, resulting in longer stairs and escalators.

Why would they be on the 501 at all? Nobody cares that the line follows a different path underground. They pick the quickest route to their destination. The natural place to change to the subway from a Queen East streetcar would be at Riverside station and take the subway across town to the nearest subway station to their destination or transfer to the last leg of their journey on a route that will take them there.

I'm assuming that on-street parking would be better be reduced or enforced, and some sort of transit signal priority would be implemented by then. So hopefully traffic congestion caused by the single-occupant automobiles can be reduced.

Toronto has spent decades with the 501 in mixed traffic as the only method of transit along Queen and never did these things, what makes you think that once there's a faster alternative running under Queen that the city is going to suddenly work on mixed traffic transit priority on Queen Street?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Detroit's Q-Line is still free. The double-ended streetcars runs on batteries on portions of the route. See https://wdet.org/2024/09/23/rta-to-take-over-qline-operations-expanding-funding-opportunities/

A reason to cross over on the Gordie Howe International Bridge to visit Detroit to look it and ride it.