[grey]

Honestly, as citizens of this city, we have every right to be very cynical.

 

[Archivist]

As opposed to what city, exactly? The promised land where the subways always run, they are building seventeen new lines, the politicians aren't crooked, there is no homelessness, and the architecture is always stunning.

In terms of this program, I pass daily past a small fragment of it's success, and enjoy it quite a bit over what was there before. It's a good, low key program that allows for incremental changes of city improvement, which I really like. And the plantings on University have been beautiful for years.

I can be very cynical, but what I find tiresome are comments about Toronto that act as if we are somehow uniquely appropriate for cynicism. As if there's this magical other place where all is beautiful and lovely.

 

[taal]

Honestly, as citizens of this city, we have every right to be very cynical.

If you enjoy life in this city while at the same time always being very cynical then I congratulate you and by all means don't let me rant stop your cynicism.

Yes I agree there is some room for it I don't think we need it all the time.

 

[nstuch]

i passed by the other day and it's looking quite nice

how the city left this piece of land in the condition it's in for so long is beyond belief. it's has to be one of the spots in the city most frequently passed by tourists and visitors.. there's always hundreds of tourist looking types around that area as well as commuters, baseball fans etc. any city serious about tourism would have made that a priority long long ago, it shouldn't be left up to a scheme like clean and beautiful city.

 

[Tewder]

Care to elaborate? I have to say the Clean and Beautiful City program, despite its cheesy name, has made a good impact on the city, focusing on community and small initiatives to improve the cityscape. I think the best example are the large planter boxes that are being put on local streets that are being maintained by local residents (i.e. St. Joseph Street is a particular success). That being said, there's still a far way to go, and it's good to see that at least there's a good effort.

Sorry, I do not agree. This program has 'lip service' written all over it, and the pathetic thing is that some people buy it because our expectations are conditioned to be so low. A flower planter simply does not constitute the sort of urban planning and long term investment in the public realm that we were promised through a Clean and Beautiful City initiative. Take a walk down any of the major thoroughfares of this city and tell me what would qualify as 'beauty', without resorting to the 'messy urbanism' propaganda that City Beauty apologists cling to.

... and those of you who dismiss the criticizing of the deplorable state of Toronto's streets as somehow cynical are part of the problem. Demand more, and we may just get it.

 

[jaborandi]

... and those of you who dismiss the criticizing of the deplorable state of Toronto's streets as somehow cynical are part of the problem. Demand more, and we may just get it.

Paid for by whom (or is it who - I can never remember)?

 

[maestro]

Take a walk down any of the major thoroughfares of this city and tell me what would qualify as 'beauty'

Certianly the dozen or so traffic triangles completed thus far would qualify (hey, and they replaced the dead trees in front of HVE!!)

 

[allabootmatt]

Baby steps, but important ones. Toronto is great--absolutely great--at a lot of things, particularly ones money can't buy (organic culture, streetlife, vibrancy, etc). But it does so happen that streetscaping is, in my view, our single biggest weakness.

My hope is that after seeing the impact of even the little interventions completed so far, people who are almost pathologically trained to ignore these things (kinda like how most people don't notice hydro wires) will like them and demand more.

It's like Beijing. Now that that city has had consistent blue sky for the first time in the last 50 years, people want the traffic restrictions that produced it to continue.

 

[isittimetomoveyet]

Any news or images from the announcement on October 2? I rarely pass this place nowadays, so I cant quite picture it in enough detail.

 

[Tewder]

Baby steps, but important ones. Toronto is great--absolutely great--at a lot of things, particularly ones money can't buy (organic culture, streetlife, vibrancy, etc).

Agreed, and I sort of feel that all goes without saying. I mean must we really preface any legitimate criticism with a Toronto cheer first?

Paid for by whom (or is it who - I can never remember)?

Well who pays for anything? It's basically a matter of priorities, isn't it? All the more so in a city like Toronto where traditionally there really doesn't appear to be much political motivation or power for the funding of aesthetics, design or style. The motivations here residing at the micro level rather than at the macro, which is to say among the numerous cultural, ethnic and neighbourhood self-interest groups that wield the most power and influence. I think this is changing as Toronto grows and matures, and as more 'outsiders' flood into the many condos sprouting up all over the place demanding more from the built environment that surrounds them, and as said before City Beautiful is really just an empty nod to this.

 

[junctionist]

The initiative hasn't been working when it comes to graffiti. I've never seen more graffiti in the city than there is now.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Don't even start Junctionist. Compared to most major European cities, Toronto is extremely clean.




As an admirer of graffiti however, this sort of saddens me.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Well who pays for anything? It's basically a matter of priorities, isn't it?

I can't prove it, but I'm convinced that the city has robbed Peter the suburban park to pay for Paul the Clean & Beautiful planting. It irks me a little bit in principle, but a typical community park with half as many flowers or with its grass cut 5 times per year instead of 7 is still just as useful, so skimming here and there allows Clean & Beautiful to redirect this money and effort to more visible/token places.

 

[TO City of Light]

Wow - tell us more

"Compared to most major European cities, Toronto is extremely clean."




And just which cities might these be?

And please offer comparison of like with like, i.e. upscale shopping area with upscale shopping area, subway with subway, slum with slum, etc.


.

 

[Mongo]

"Compared to most major European cities, Toronto is extremely clean."

And just which cities might these be?

I was wondering that too. I had been in a number of European cities (the most well-known being Athens, Madrid and Amsterdam) , and do not recall seeing ANY graffiti to speak of while I was there. Maybe I was simply not in the areas where there was graffiti, but I traveled quite a bit in those cities.