[grey]

I can't imagine this city without a healthy dose of graffiti. Actually, I can, and I don't like it.

 

[smuncky]

Personally, I found Germany to be filled with graffiti. Every bridge underpass on the highway to many city streets as well. It was the first thing that caught my eye actually.

 

[ladyscraper]

Personally, I found Germany to be filled with graffiti. Every bridge underpass on the highway to many city streets as well. It was the first thing that caught my eye actually.

Yes, Germany has tons of graffiti. Especially Hamburg! Every time I'm in Europe I see so much graffiti on everything that I have to agree that Toronto has much less in comparison. However I don't really mind graffiti either way so it doesn't impact my impression of the cities.
Actually Berlin is no slouch either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlMXl-nFLks

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

^ So you don't mind criminal vandalism that denotes a lack of pride and respect of public and private property, and that degrades the public realm and is often a precursor to, and outgrowth of, major criminal activity? Interesting. Own property do you?

The imbecility of some of the people on this board towards the tolerance of (if not outright advocation) of graffiti, who *claim* to want to a vibrant city, is simply astounding. Or not. If you have zero class and the personal standards of a self-absorbed, juvenile moron who places self-expression and self-entitlement and selfishness over the consideration of those of others who feel that vandalism is an outgrowth of breakdown of civility, which it is.

In short, if you tolerate and accept, and want more of, graffiti, you are a worthless, myopic piece of shit and an agent and enabler of civic decay, and have *no* right, NONE, to call yourself or consider yourself a positive force in this city, either as a citizen or contributor to forums like this. You are, in short, no better than the subhuman scum who commit vandalism in the first place.

 

[Hydrogen]

The imbecility of some of the people on this board towards the tolerance of (if not outright advocation) of graffiti, who *claim* to want to a vibrant city, is simply astounding. Or not. If you have zero class and the personal standards of a self-absorbed, juvenile moron who places self-expression and self-entitlement and selfishness over the consideration of those of others who feel that vandalism is an outgrowth of breakdown of civility, which it is.

In short, if you tolerate and accept, and want more of, graffiti, you are a worthless, myopic piece of shit and an agent and enabler of civic decay, and have *no* right, NONE, to call yourself or consider yourself a positive force in this city, either as a citizen or contributor to forums like this. You are, in short, no better than the subhuman scum who commit vandalism in the first place.

A tad harsh (and then some), but exactly why does graffiti get defended so readily by so many people? Frankly, I grow tired of seeing public property vandalized by people who can afford the materials to carry out their act, but who won't reserve there acts for their own property. I'm also tired of seeing the walls of my building getting coated over and over.

 

[CanadianNational]

Actually, I was going to chime in about my opposition to graffiti, but this:

In short, if you tolerate and accept, and want more of, graffiti, you are a worthless, myopic piece of shit and an agent and enabler of civic decay, and have *no* right, NONE, to call yourself or consider yourself a positive force in this city, either as a citizen or contributor to forums like this. You are, in short, no better than the subhuman scum who commit vandalism in the first place.

makes me want to run right out and make some!

My gawd, what an offensive post. I'm not a big graffiti fan (to say the least), but I'll take a little decorative cursive spraypainting any day over a punitive, specious, inane and seemingly pathological viewpoint, as evidenced here.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

I will show no tolerance, nor give any quarter, to people who advocate the ruination of the public realm by tolerating vandalism. If it's harsh, so be it. I don't care anymore, I am sick and tired of walking down streets and seeing every mailbox, traffic box, and the sides of many buildings trashed by assholes, of scratched windows on subways and buses, of playgrounds used by children smeared with stupid bubble script, of bike trails and ravines whose tranquility is violated by stupid, juvenile scribblings, of picnic tables and benches and countless other pieces of public space used for solitude and tranquility degraded by stupid, selfish idiots, of bridges and lamp posts and other infrastructure that is supposed to be used for the public good hijacked by selfish, inane, pathetic morons whose only imprint on this planet is what they'll leave with their markers and spray cans.

So fuck the defenders of this shit, of those who think it's "street art" or "guerilla art" or some other morally vacuous euphemism. Fuck anyone who says it's "a part of urban life" and anyone who says I'm being too harsh in condemning it can kiss my ass. I'm sick and tired of seeing the city I grew up in, that was clean and safe and orderly and respected by the people who lived in it and was held up as an example for others to follow, descend into the squalor and neglect and abuse that adherents of a stupid, degenerate, worthless sub(human) culture who celebrates this garbage and cheers on the steady destruction and degradation of its appearance seem to want it to become. This is not urban, it is not about "living in a big city". This is about being useless fucking morons who think you have the right to smear your shit over every flat surface you see because you were raised by negligent, indulgent lazy turds who never told you to respect others by not making them live in a shithole covered in your worthless, shit scribbles.

I am fighting, every day, to hold the tide of this filth by the worthless, entitled, selfish, and self-absorbed offspring of brain-dead yuppies in my neighbourhood, who, because of the tacit encouragement of people who think like some of the people on this board, have been made to believe the idiocy that the city "is a canvas" for their ugly, fetid scribbilings that are indicative of emotionally retarded imbeciles who haven't progressed beyond the emotional development of a five year old who scribbles crayons on walls. And the result? A park across from my home ruined by vandalism, public property trashed, children exposed to this shit, and bit by bit, the beauty of the city ruined. Want to sit in a park for a quiet moment? Look at a tag on the wall across from you. Take a bike ride in the ravine? More of the same, every bridge, every sign, every trash can, even the pavement itself. Selfishness, contempt for others, and all that it entails everywhere I look, in a so-called "good neighbourhood". Fuck this. Fuck anyone who defends it fuck anyone who says I'm too harsh in condemning it. What the hell do you people want to live in, New York c. 1985?

So I'm too harsh CN? I'm too intolerant? Christ, blow it out your ass, fuck off, and move the hell out of this city if you hate it so much you want to ruin it or wish to see it ruined. You are a perfect example of the morally vacuous, cowardly and useless class of degenerate effetes whose lack of conviction and judgment are the cause of this ongoing degradation of this city. Only you and your ilk lack the intelligence, foresight and conviction to see it, so brainwashed are those like you to the criminality around you that have you somehow managed to torque it into a benign acceptance of a practice which degrades us all by transforming it into an environmental nuisance no worse than bad weather. You are a low-life, classless cheerleader for decay, an urban quisling, so I hope you and others like you are proud of your deranged, debased tolerance. It's a pity this city has to be sacrificed to the moral cowardice of those such as yourself.

 

[Filip]

I agree with everything you wrote. It's refreshing to see someone on these boards with some sense of integrity left.

I was laughed at on SSC for saying that cities are not a canvass for 'artists' who can't afford to buy their own paper, and that someone who has not grown out of the drawing on walls stage shouldn't get our sympathy.

A few weeks ago some little punk was spraying a Petro Canada station near my house, so a friend and I went over there to ask him politely why he was ruining a nice white wall. The little bastard got scared shitless and ran to his bike, but he got a little beating nevertheless.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I will show no tolerance, nor give any quarter, to people who advocate the ruination of the public realm by tolerating vandalism. If it's harsh, so be it. I don't care anymore, I am sick and tired of walking down streets and seeing every mailbox, traffic box, and the sides of many buildings trashed by assholes, of scratched windows on subways and buses, of playgrounds used by children smeared with stupid bubble script, of bike trails and ravines whose tranquility is violated by stupid, juvenile scribblings, of picnic tables and benches and countless other pieces of public space used for solitude and tranquility degraded by stupid, selfish idiots, of bridges and lamp posts and other infrastructure that is supposed to be used for the public good hijacked by selfish, inane, pathetic morons whose only imprint on this planet is what they'll leave with their markers and spray cans.

So fuck the defenders of this shit, of those who think it's "street art" or "guerilla art" or some other morally vacuous euphemism. Fuck anyone who says it's "a part of urban life" and anyone who says I'm being too harsh in condemning it can kiss my ass. I'm sick and tired of seeing the city I grew up in, that was clean and safe and orderly and respected by the people who lived in it and was held up as an example for others to follow, descend into the squalor and neglect and abuse that adherents of a stupid, degenerate, worthless sub(human) culture who celebrates this garbage and cheers on the steady destruction and degradation of its appearance seem to want it to become. This is not urban, it is not about "living in a big city". This is about being useless fucking morons who think you have the right to smear your shit over every flat surface you see because you were raised by negligent, indulgent lazy turds who never told you to respect others by not making them live in a shithole covered in your worthless, shit scribbles.

I am fighting, every day, to hold the tide of this filth by the worthless, entitled, selfish, and self-absorbed offspring of brain-dead yuppies in my neighbourhood, who, because of the tacit encouragement of people who think like some of the people on this board, have been made to believe the idiocy that the city "is a canvas" for their ugly, fetid scribbilings that are indicative of emotionally retarded imbeciles who haven't progressed beyond the emotional development of a five year old who scribbles crayons on walls. And the result? A park across from my home ruined by vandalism, public property trashed, children exposed to this shit, and bit by bit, the beauty of the city ruined. Want to sit in a park for a quiet moment? Look at a tag on the wall across from you. Take a bike ride in the ravine? More of the same, every bridge, every sign, every trash can, even the pavement itself. Selfishness, contempt for others, and all that it entails everywhere I look, in a so-called "good neighbourhood". Fuck this. Fuck anyone who defends it fuck anyone who says I'm too harsh in condemning it. What the hell do you people want to live in, New York c. 1985?

So I'm too harsh CN? I'm too intolerant? Christ, blow it out your ass, fuck off, and move the hell out of this city if you hate it so much you want to ruin it or wish to see it ruined. You are a perfect example of the morally vacuous, cowardly and useless class of degenerate effetes whose lack of conviction and judgment are the cause of this ongoing degradation of this city. Only you and your ilk lack the intelligence, foresight and conviction to see it, so brainwashed are those like you to the criminality around you that have you somehow managed to torque it into a benign acceptance of a practice which degrades us all by transforming it into an environmental nuisance no worse than bad weather. You are a low-life, classless cheerleader for decay, an urban quisling, so I hope you and others like you are proud of your deranged, debased tolerance. It's a pity this city has to be sacrificed to the moral cowardice of those such as yourself.

Wow. Whether you like it or not, graffiti is here to stay. You might as well accept it or continue down this path to giving yourself an aneurysm.

 

[yyzer]

well, I hate graffiti too.....but I hate panhandlers more....

 

[achender]

For the record here is a look at the triangle from the other side of university. Please excuse the amateurish stitch job.

 

[yyzer]

very strange that there has been almost no mention of the 'event' of last week....there is one article at thebulletin.ca....

City, Fairmont Hotels unveil beautification on University Avenue

By Duncan McAllister

Councilor Pam McConnell; Mayor David Miller; Brian Richardson, Fairmont Hotels and Gary Welsh, City of Toronto, officially unveil the new "Green Triangle" at University and Front.
(Photo: Duncan McAllister)


Mayor David Miller and councillor Pam McConnell (Ward 28 Toronto Centre-Rosedale) together with Brian Richardson, VP of brand marketing and communications at Fairmont Hotels and Resorts and Heather McCrory, Regional VP and GM of The Fairmont Royal York celebrated the transformation and renaming of the area known as the University Avenue Triangle - the land bordered by Front Street, University Avenue and York Street.

Mayor Miller thanked Fairmont Hotels "for their vision and support in turning an orphaned public space to a beautified public space."

With its corporate headquarters located in the downtown core and the Fairmont Royal York close by, the redesigned triangle represents Fairmont’s commitment to the community, its strong connection to Toronto’s railway heritage as well as its progressive environmental commitments.

This is one of the projects resulting from the City of Toronto’s Clean and Beautiful City Program, which is designed to revitalize city streetscapes and improve key parts of Toronto’s public spaces.

2008-10-02 15:37:49

 

[ProjectEnd]

I was wondering that too. I had been in a number of European cities (the most well-known being Athens, Madrid and Amsterdam) , and do not recall seeing ANY graffiti to speak of while I was there. Maybe I was simply not in the areas where there was graffiti, but I traveled quite a bit in those cities.

Interesting. I am in Europe right now and will be through January (perhaps you have seen my Contemporary European Architecture thread?). Frankly, I do find your comments a tad hard to believe. Graffiti is everywhere here, in every city I visit and in most parts of those cities.

You cite Athens (thought by many to be the dirtiest city in Europe), Madrid (never been) and Amsterdam (the current graffiti world-headquarters), as examples yet all of those cities are alive with what some deem as art and others, vandalism.

I'm not going to give a Fiendish Librarian-esque diatribe about why I enjoy graffiti since I believe that that is a matter of personal taste. I do however, find Librarian's comments bizarre since he claims to be the moral arbiter of justice and liberty in the urban realm, then makes threatening remarks to those who practice it. Furthermore, his use of pedestrian threats, cloaked in academic language doesn't even deserve a response. Just remember, Graffiti has been going on for thousands of years and will probably go on for thousands more - it cannot be killed.


Now, back to Pam & the Triangles....

 

[taal]

Just wondering, in that picture above ... are they done?? Or are they just starting to work on the triangle now?

 

[Tewder]

I was thinking the same thing. If finished it is pretty undewhelming.

As for Europe, of course there is graffiti and anybody who has ever taken a local commuter train around London or Paris would tell you the same thing. The issue is that in Europe and even in major North American cities you are hard-pressed to find graffiti in the central public or commercial/tourist areas. Cities cannot possibly keep every area clean at all times but some effort is made to at least keep the major public spaces, that are enjoyed by all, clean and tidy. This is where Toronto falls down. Even our major central thoroughfares are dirty, dowdy and in disrepair with broken sidewalks, patched pavement, black gum stains, graffiti, ugly wooden hydro poles, etc, etc. Walking around downtown during the film festival I was amazed by how ugly and messy everything was, and this at a time when the world's focus is on the city.