NWUrbanism
Active Member
Nice to see this finally get started. I used to live a block away and remember going to an open house info session before the pandemic, where they said it had a planned completion of Fall 2020.
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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
On this, and kind of beyond it. The city seems to be tired of Balzac getting all the industrial growth.CPKC just certified 9 properties as part of their site ready program for development. The Shepherd Logistic Centre in Calgary achieved gold status indicating that development is able to proceed right away as all necessary approvals and permitting have been obtained.
Sounds like this could be the inland port that was being reported earlier.
CPKC markets prime, rail-served industrial dev. properties
Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) has certified its first nine "site-ready" rail-served locations across North America for potential industrial or logistics development, including sites in Alberta and Quebec.renx.ca
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CBBarnett
Senior Member
I find the industrial growth discussion fascinating in it doesn't get as much attention as the mixed use and residential stuff. I always wondered if this is really a problem to lose industrial market share to Rockyview and, more importantly, is there anything we can actually do about it?
A bunch of random thoughts:
Regardless of where growth goes in the region, there's benefits for Calgary through the jobs. Incomes generated in Balzac are spend in Calgary mostly, as that's where the workforce lives. Yes, it's not ideal to create car-dependence industrial sprawl, but it's a tall-order to reverse this - warehouses are enormous and not particularly job-dense. In North America they thrive on cheap land (largely rural) and access to market (highways) that's a structural advantage of rural development that is hard to overcome in urban settings.
Of course, if we don't get industrial growth we don't get the industrial tax base which everyone loves because they can't vote and have to pay a higher rate than residential uses - so I see the incentive to get more within the city boundary. Rockyview for it's part would have probably gone bankrupt had they not pivoted to industrial growth to offset their expensive and inefficient residential land pattern.
So we want industrial growth in the boundary, but the question becomes if we can actually influence this stuff. Balzac first exploded due to Calgary (and Alberta) growth and industrial land constraints in Vancouver, neither of which are really driven by local policy. Given urban land prices, it's hard to imagine an Amazon warehouse setting up in an established industrial area due to the size they need. Could Calgary incentives ever outweigh the relative affordability of land in rural areas?
A better question might be why would we want to incentivize mega-warehouses in the first place? It's not like older "obsolete" industrial areas are declining in Calgary, if anything they are thriving more than ever, with an evolving, denser mix of commercial/industrial uses like breweries and any number of random companies that need centrally located spaces. This ecosystem thrives in the conditions that Calgary excels at relative to the county - sufficient local density, immediate access to customers, and quality urban services. I imagine the tax-density of Manchester is much higher per hectare than an Amazon warehouse in Rockyview? Surely part of hte goal is to create more Manchesters, not just more Balzacs?
Lastly - does anything we do actually matter here? Has any central city ever actually preserved it's industrial base given regional competition with cheaper land? Apart from fixed critical infrastructure (e.g. a port) that can't move, to my knowledge at a certain size every major city sheds industrial space to the cheaper areas around all over North America. Has anyone ever reversed this trend?
lemongrab
Active Member
Spot on. Not just the tax-density, but I'd think Manchester is a much more effective recirculator of money in the local economy - more likely local ownership for starters, but I'd also think more local b2b throughout the supply chain. I'd imagine mega-corp mega warehouses are more likely to contract with other mega-corps for various needs. But Vance Refrigeration will do more business with smaller outfits like Dunder Mifflin or the Michael Scott Paper Company.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
The answer is probably try to do more industrial but don't worry about it too much. There's that inland port they're building with Rockyview County on the east side of the city. See that through and try to do a bit more. As has been said, the City and its businesses do benefit from rural growth in indirect ways that are not related to property taxes of the individual businesses. Maybe more could be done with the bedroom communities of Calgary to benefit the city versus them benefitting mostly from Calgary but I'm not sure what that could be. The massive investment in Stoney trail helped Rockyview even more than the Province might've realized. Regional Rail will likely have an unknown affect on this as well.
Spring2008
Active Member
Big podium redevelopment at Suncor, would like to see more of this in the core.
DougB
Senior Member
I can fantasize about a massive redevelopment of the Alyth Yard and adjacent industrial properties (ex. Canada Malting and ADM). The it would center around a riverfront park extending into a central park that would span westward to the escarpment. All of the industrial properties save the Bonnybrook sewage treatment plant would be rebuilt as mixed use. The Green Line is already planned to service the area. The riverfront park would also connect upstream to the Bird Sanctuary and future Bend in the Bow parks. Ogden Road would become local service with truck and other commercial traffic diverted to the future 50th Ave extension. Of course the remediation costs for the rail yard would be huge, but Calgary could have a riverfront BeltlineCPKC just certified 9 properties as part of their site ready program for development. The Shepherd Logistic Centre in Calgary achieved gold status indicating that development is able to proceed right away as all necessary approvals and permitting have been obtained.
Sounds like this could be the inland port that was being reported earlier.
CPKC markets prime, rail-served industrial dev. properties
Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) has certified its first nine "site-ready" rail-served locations across North America for potential industrial or logistics development, including sites in Alberta and Quebec.
IanBray
Active Member
Interesting land use re-designation application has been submitted for a 13-story building on a residential street in Bankview. Building will be located one block west of 14th street at the very top of the hill, behind the Starbucks/rooftop bug commercial building.
It's currently a couple of bungalows with tallest building around there is 3 stories however the developer is going for 13 stories (ballsy) on the back of the new City of Calgary West Elbow Communities Local Area Plan and Municipal Development Plan which suggested these blocks could be 8-12 stories as part of the city rezoning. I find it really hard to see how 13 stories would fly here considering that it is across the street from Mount Royal, the richest and most powerful residents in the city, and would block out their sunlight big time. The development is also not a full block so would need to be a skinny midrise akin to Nest.
02 Planning is involved. They have equipment on site for weeks now. I asked the guy what they are doing, and he said that it is for geothermal heating for the building which is a first for Calgary. Apparently, the developer wants to put a rooftop garden/solarium and a restaurant on the roof. Again, very odd for a residential street that is off the main street (14th street). I see this getting a lot of opposition given the 13 stories.
It's currently a couple of bungalows with tallest building around there is 3 stories however the developer is going for 13 stories (ballsy) on the back of the new City of Calgary West Elbow Communities Local Area Plan and Municipal Development Plan which suggested these blocks could be 8-12 stories as part of the city rezoning. I find it really hard to see how 13 stories would fly here considering that it is across the street from Mount Royal, the richest and most powerful residents in the city, and would block out their sunlight big time. The development is also not a full block so would need to be a skinny midrise akin to Nest.
02 Planning is involved. They have equipment on site for weeks now. I asked the guy what they are doing, and he said that it is for geothermal heating for the building which is a first for Calgary. Apparently, the developer wants to put a rooftop garden/solarium and a restaurant on the roof. Again, very odd for a residential street that is off the main street (14th street). I see this getting a lot of opposition given the 13 stories.
Makarov
New Member
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Interesting one to watch if something real actually comes from this - 13 stories would be big for the area, but we are only talking about 25m from 14th Street, 700m from 17th Ave. It's out of scale for existing, but hardly in the middle of nowhere.Interesting land use re-designation application has been submitted for a 13-story building on a residential street in Bankview. Building will be located one block west of 14th street at the very top of the hill, behind the Starbucks/rooftop bug commercial building.
It's currently a couple of bungalows with tallest building around there is 3 stories however the developer is going for 13 stories (ballsy) on the back of the new City of Calgary West Elbow Communities Local Area Plan and Municipal Development Plan which suggested these blocks could be 8-12 stories as part of the city rezoning. I find it really hard to see how 13 stories would fly here considering that it is across the street from Mount Royal, the richest and most powerful residents in the city, and would block out their sunlight big time. The development is also not a full block so would need to be a skinny midrise akin to Nest.
02 Planning is involved. They have equipment on site for weeks now. I asked the guy what they are doing, and he said that it is for geothermal heating for the building which is a first for Calgary. Apparently, the developer wants to put a rooftop garden/solarium and a restaurant on the roof. Again, very odd for a residential street that is off the main street (14th street). I see this getting a lot of opposition given the 13 stories.
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From the 14th side it's far less dramatic looking location - just a half-block off the main street.
IanBray
Active Member
I agree with your comments though I think that your yellow box is closer to 8 stories than 13. I think 8 would be fine there however 13 will get a lot of opposition, especially from Mount Royal.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
What's the saying, shoot for the stars...
A block away at 26 ave there are 5-storey buildings.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Oh yeah I wasn't going for accurate to scale. I'd imagine any height would be met with resistance given the context.
But its all part of maturing into a big city. It shouldn't be surprising to see proposals for 13 storey buildings popping up from time to time in areas that aren't used to see them. Just like how infill townhomes, then infill apartment, then infill 6 storey mixed use is becoming more common.
For comparison, when Toronto was our size in the 1950s - 1960s, this was their major suburban apartment tower boom era (as well as enormous low-density sprawl).
Development economic conditions are vastly different today of course, but the fundamental growth condition that sets these things in motion is similar. So the occasional building taller than a walk-up shouldn't surprise anymore in a city of nearly 2 million people.
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
We should all protest against what our neighbourhoods are becoming with these big buildings with storeys, many storeys!, being built in locations where there aren't buildings with storeys! Stand up for our rights! Won't somebody think of the shadows at 5:30pm on October 15th!
We can't end up with another scenario like this one on our hands!
We can't end up with another scenario like this one on our hands!