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JonnyCanuck

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I think the major networks will be using extreme caution before declaring a winner knowing there are tens of millions of votes that will not be counted by night's end. Depending on what states those are from, it would be very premature to call anything. No news network is going to want to make a major mistake like that.

Now ... Trump calling himself the winner, prematurely .... that is a different matter. He has already laid the groundwork for that. He can declare victory and then when all of the mail-in votes are counted and he has lost, he can say it is fraud, cheating, conspiracy ... whatever ... he'll say it. Then the sparks will fly.
 

JonnyCanuck

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Trump has no shame. In front of the world he has used the words 'fraud and stolen' to describe the American election process. Leadership at it's worst. While part of me expected this result, the other part was hoping for a more decisive victory by Biden so this rhetoric could be avoided.
I am stunned that almost 70 million Americans, in voting for this guy, are saying character, integrity, honesty, decency and empathy don't matter. However it also says to the Democrats ... you are moving too far and too fast to the left!

I
 
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Silence&Motion

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What a fucking disaster. Even if Biden eventually wins (which seems to be the most likely outcome at this point), Trump supporters will feel that the election was stolen from them illegitimately. Trump will take full advantage of their anger not only in the aftermath of this election, but likely throughout the next four years. He even has the option of riding that anger into another run in 2024.

Meanwhile, Biden is going to have to attempt to govern in the middle of a pandemic and global economic depression with a GOP-controlled Senate that will sit on their hands and refuse to pass any legislation or confirm any judges. And he'll also have to deal with a hyper-conservative Supreme Court that will likely strike down any ambitious executive actions he tries to take.
 

JonnyCanuck

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I agree. After the dust is settled, all of the challenges are over, and Biden is declared the winner, the Republican party will distance themselves from Trump. He was considered by many in the party to be toxic before 2016.
 

Mountain Man

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Well hopefully they come back toward the center a bit, they have been going more and more right since the Tea Party movement and Trump loves pandering to that crowd.
 

Silence&Motion

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The GOP establishment has no power to prevent Trump from running again. I'm hard pressed to think of any Republican who could run against Trump in the primaries and win over the base of the party. It's a cult of personality and I think they only thing that could have broken Trump's power over the base would have been a massive loss.

Of course the next four years are going to be extremely unpredictable, so who knows what will be happening at that point.
 

JonnyCanuck

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The tension is building. Trump tweeting 'Stop the Counting' although it could help him Arizona. The campaign is suing 4 states. Fox News opinion hosts stoking the theory that the mail-in voting process is not legitimate and even fraudulent. His cult is sitting back absorbing all of this. I fear that once the announcement is made and it is Biden .... all hell is going to break loose. Football will not be the only spectator sport this weekend for Canadians, sadly.

If there is rampant civil unrest, we will soon see what kind of leader Trump is. Does anyone think he will rise to the occasion?
 
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googspecial

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Trump has no shame. In front of the world he has used the words 'fraud and stolen' to describe the American election process. Leadership at it's worst. While part of me expected this result, the other part was hoping for a more decisive victory by Biden so this rhetoric could be avoided.
I am stunned that almost 70 million Americans, in voting for this guy, are saying character, integrity, honesty, decency and empathy don't matter. However it also says to the Democrats ... you are moving too far and too fast to the left!


I kind of have to disagree - when you see things like Florida vote for Trump but a $15 minimum wage. Also a score of "centrist" dems lost their congressional seats. Appeasing to centrists and moderate republicans may have benefitted themselves for the presidential race, but those voters are still voting for republican candidates down ballot.
 

darwink

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I think you're missing the biggest thing - the Republicans have a lot of 'communitarian' voters, those who like government policy or programs that benefit them, but they do not view all Americans as part of their community, so they oppose government policies which would benefit themselves, because they view benefits to other people as unfair. Whether due to racism, a lack of even a rudimentary class consciousness, or a sometimes well founded lack of faith in government's ability to implement programs, this helps fuel the Republicans.
 

Mountain Man

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The protesters trying to stop the counting is completely insane! PUTIN IS FUCKING LOVING THIS!!! Whatever Trump excrement Trump feeds his supporters from himself they just eat up and regurgitate it all over. 4 more years would be a total disaster for the US and western democracy!
 

Silence&Motion

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I think it's also worth considering the fact that Trump has a strong aesthetic appeal to a lot of male, working class, low propensity voters (of all races) who don't really have strong ideological or partisan commitments. In past generations, a lot of these people might have been members of unions and voted Democratic by default. And the way for Democrats to win them back is not to stake out any particular policy or ideological position, but to nominate some charismatic candidate who can break through and connect to them at an aesthetic level (e.g. like an Obama). That's obviously a hard thing to do, but both parties have a history of relying on the median voter theory and, as a result, nominating the least offensive candidates who hold vaguely moderate positions.

On the other hand, Democrats have won the most votes in 7 or the last 8 presidential elections. So perhaps they're doing everything right and it's really the fucked up political system that places the fate of the presidency in the hands of a few thousand swing voters in a half dozen states, and control of the Senate in the hands of dozens of tiny rural states that are home to a fragment of the overall population.
 

JonnyCanuck

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"So perhaps they're doing everything right and it's really the fucked up political system that places the fate of the presidency in the hands of a few thousand swing voters in a half dozen states, and control of the Senate in the hands of dozens of tiny rural states that are home to a fragment of the overall population"
I think you described the problem perfectly!

In 2016, 100,000 votes in 3 states won Trump the presidency although he lost the popular vote by 3 million. The two senators each in Montana or South Dakota or Vermont, all with 3 electoral votes, have as much influence, authority and voting power as the 2 senators in California which has 55 electoral votes. :rolleyes: That makes absolutely no sense to me.
 
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