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Surrealplaces

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It's interesting you say that about the "empire in decline"... I have said that for about 10 years. What's worse is that their empire is not going gracefully into that good night like the British Empire did... they are going kicking and screaming like the Roman Empire did, and we all know what happened there (they took the entire European, Near Eastern, and North African worlds with them along with several other empires [Garamantes, Parthia, etc]). With our knowledge of history, this American collapse can be avoided, but likely won't be, especially due to widespread emergence of extremist social media and those flames being stoked by Russian and Chinese interests trying to destabilize American society.
What's frustrating is that the US has so many good things going for it that it, but it can't really improve as a country the way it is, it can only go downwards. They don't have enough people with the mindset of doing things for the common good.

The thing that scares me most is this whole decided media situation, and even worse, the emerging media that amounts to basically propaganda (One America, Newsmaxx, etc..). It's one thing to have a segment of the population that is ant-govt and believing conspiracies, etc.. but it's another thing to have millions upon millions who do. It scares the heck out of me, and makes me thing things are going tom go south for those guys. It also worries me about us having the same issue up here at some point. I look at the ant-mask rally yesterday and wonder how many of those were influenced by American media and Trump.
 

JonnyCanuck

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Of the 6 states Trump is questioning the validity/legality of the voting; Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia have certified their electoral votes. Arizona is due at the end of the month. There is partial recount going on in Wisconsin.
Trump has met with battleground state officials (first Michigan, then Pennsylvania). He and is surrogates continue to say confidently that this election result will be overturned. I just get this feeling that he is plotting something. I guess we won't know for sure until December 14 when each individual state declares/pledges their votes in congress.
 

Surrealplaces

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Of the 6 states Trump is questioning the validity/legality of the voting; Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia have certified their electoral votes. Arizona is due at the end of the month. There is partial recount going on in Wisconsin.
Trump has met with battleground state officials (first Michigan, then Pennsylvania). He and is surrogates continue to say confidently that this election result will be overturned. I just get this feeling that he is plotting something. I guess we won't know for sure until December 14 when each individual state declares/pledges their votes in congress.
Either that or Trump is truly delusional, and I don't mean that sarcastically. I really think he is delusional, and that it's possible he really believes he won the election. Most of the people around him are 'yes' people who probably believe he lost the election, but don't want to say it to him or the media.
 
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Silence&Motion

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The ‘yes’ people are the ones who scare me, like the Republicans sitting on election boards who initially refused to certify the results, or the state assembly people who mused about scraping the election results and sending pro-Trump electors to the EC. You can see how a bunch of ‘yes’ people scattered throughout the state legislatures, courts, and bureaucracies who were willing to just do whatever they could to stay in Trump’s good graces might have really thrown the US into total chaos. I mean, what would happen if the Republican-controlled state legislatures in Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Wisconsin just decided to ignore the results of the election and appoint pro-Trump electors, and their actions were then upheld by the Republican-controlled Supreme Court? It’s unlikely, but I don’t see what is actually preventing that from happening other than there just doesn’t happen to be enough Republicans who are brazen enough to contemplate something like that.
 

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Wisconsin partial recount puts a few more votes in Biden's pocket. A wasted $3 M spend by the Trump campaign. Results should be certified today along with Arizona.
Trump could be delusional or he really was not prepared for this election and how the votes would be staged and counted in each state, different than in 2016. Either his advisers did not tell him or he decided not to listen, which is not unusual for him. It was clear from the get go that the Democratic vote was going to heavily skewed to mail-in because of fears around the pandemic. It was a wave of anti-Trump sentiment and the response was expected to be much higher than in 2016. Every state was different in terms of what was counted first .. i.e walk-in ballots or mail-in. It so happened that most of the battleground states decided to count the mail-in votes after the walk-in ballots. Trump still today, refers to his leads in those states at around 10-11 pm of election night. His eyes and his considerable 'gut' told him he was going to win the election. I'll admit, I was concerned that the lead he had may have been insurmountable. What his advisers and his brain should have told him is that, most of the mail-in ballots had not been counted. The 10-20% of the total vote in each battleground state that was counted after election night was predominantly Democrat. Trump is saying that those votes appeared out of nowhere which is bullshit of course.
 

Surrealplaces

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If I could pinpoint the single biggest issue with Trump, it would be that he doesn't listen to or take advice from people, particularly those with more expertise. He may have been told about the possibility of losing the election that night, but it's just as likely nobody said anything to him, due to his nasty habit of turfing those who try to advise him or disagree with him.

Wisconsin partial recount puts a few more votes in Biden's pocket. A wasted $3 M spend by the Trump campaign. Results should be certified today along with Arizona.
Trump could be delusional or he really was not prepared for this election and how the votes would be staged and counted in each state, different than in 2016. Either his advisers did not tell him or he decided not to listen, which is not unusual for him. It was clear from the get go that the Democratic vote was going to heavily skewed to mail-in because of fears around the pandemic. It was a wave of anti-Trump sentiment and the response was expected to be much higher than in 2016. Every state was different in terms of what was counted first .. i.e walk-in ballots or mail-in. It so happened that most of the battleground states decided to count the mail-in votes after the walk-in ballots. Trump still today, refers to his leads in those states at around 10-11 pm of election night. His eyes and his considerable 'gut' told him he was going to win the election. I'll admit, I was concerned that the lead he had may have been insurmountable. What his advisers and his brain should have told him is that, most of the mail-in ballots had not been counted. The 10-20% of the total vote in each battleground state that was counted after election night was predominantly Democrat. Trump is saying that those votes appeared out of nowhere which is bullshit of course.
 

Mountain Man

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I think Trump knew he was going to lose, that's why he started all the nonsense about mail-in ballots. He's just such a narcissist that he can't even admit defeat with grace, he just spouts this crap so he doesn't have to admit he lost. It's the mindless minions that follow him that make me nervous. The Proud Boys were at the anti-mask rally again this weekend, and they look directly to Trump for their marching orders...

It's Don Jr that really makes me nervous, he's as crazy as his father and Trump supporters will absolutely vote for him.
 

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He is still pressuring Georgia state officials who have had at one recount and are in the middle of another one. Although they are investigating some irregularities as would be found in any election (for or against either party), there are no red flags that would tip the scales in favour of Trump. The vote has been certified. When are Republicans going to see this guy for what he is ... a sore loser and a danger to democracy!
Trump is supposed to visit Georgia on the weekend in support of the Senate elections. We can only imagine what kind of spectacle that is going to be. Instead of touting the qualities of the Republican candidates, he will whine about the presidential election. I hope that he ends up costing Republicans those two seats.
 

JonnyCanuck

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So we have state officials including three Republican governors, the Department of Homeland Security and now Bill Barr, Attorney General all saying that the claim of wide-spread voter fraud was investigated, but there was no evidence found to support it.
Yet Trump continues to make false statements. His legal team refutes all of these credible sources and has said they have lots of evidence ... except the kind that holds up in court. However, no senior person(s) in the Republican party has the courage and conviction to tell him to stop all this, and accept the results of the election. To the rest of the world, the American democratic process must look chaotic thanks to this truly 'cartoon' president.

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JonnyCanuck

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If true, the talk about invoking 'martial law' to force a second election in the battleground states, makes Trump more reckless and dangerous than ever. This guy is determined to overthrow the results of the election and 'get his way'.
Remind us again .... he is the president of one of the most democratic nations in history. A nation that many other countries modelled their democracy on.... and most of the Republican party is going along with this????
 

googspecial

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The US is considered a flawed democracy and has trended that way for some time now. How and why can be summed up by the rest of your comment, lol.
 

Surrealplaces

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If true, the talk about invoking 'martial law' to force a second election in the battleground states, makes Trump more reckless and dangerous than ever. This guy is determined to overthrow the results of the election and 'get his way'.
Remind us again .... he is the president of one of the most democratic nations in history. A nation that many other countries modelled their democracy on.... and most of the Republican party is going along with this????
Definitely a scary situation. One would never expect it to happen, but like all other crazy historical events of the past, nobody ever saw it coming until it was too late.
 

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I hope this whole Trump shit show persuades the US to have a faster turnover after an election. Does any other country give the loser 2 more months in power?
 

JonnyCanuck

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Just when we thought Trump could not get any more brazen ... after all he lost the election and the electoral college pledged the votes as they were counted. Instead Trump was recorded on Saturday trying to "coerce/strong arm/persuade/threaten/beg"(pick your term as they all apply) the secretary of state for Georgia to declare that there was a different result, and Trump was really the winner. You can bet he made similar calls to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Arizona. We just don't know about them.
All of this is playing out in full view ... like a reality TV show .... unbelievable! 😲. This guy just won't accept that the majority of Americans don't want him as president for 4 more years.
 
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