[Bojaxs]

The Guelph Sub west of Guelph is straight and can be made much faster, but I doubt we will see it fully grade separated. Very definitely it can be brought to the standard of the VIA owned lines in eastern Ontario, that are good for 160 km/hr.

Does having too many at-grade crossings force a train to slow down?

 

[Urban Sky]

Does having too many at-grade crossings force a train to slow down?

Canada’s Grade Crossing Regulations forbid the construction of at-grade crossings for speeds in excess of 177 km/h (110 mph) or with Freeways:

Grade Crossings Regulations

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

 

[smallspy]

If you might elaborate on the bolded, it would be appreciated.

What improvements are in the offing? and What impact will those have?

Even since the third track was installed 15-ish years ago, CN has looked at other potential improvements through there to speed up their operations.

The last I heard about was that they were looking at installing a 4th track from Bayview to Snake (the west end of Aldershot Yard). This would allow them to completely separate their operations between the west end of the Oakville Sub into Hamilton and the operations from the Dundas Sub, and thus give them more capacity through the yard itself. That section is busy enough that it regularly takes freight trains several hours to traverse the couple of miles between Hamilton Yard and Aldershot Yard.

Dan

 

[Bojaxs]

Even since the third track was installed 15-ish years ago, CN has looked at other potential improvements through there to speed up their operations.

The last I heard about was that they were looking at installing a 4th track from Bayview to Snake (the west end of Aldershot Yard). This would allow them to completely separate their operations between the west end of the Oakville Sub into Hamilton and the operations from the Dundas Sub, and thus give them more capacity through the yard itself. That section is busy enough that it regularly takes freight trains several hours to traverse the couple of miles between Hamilton Yard and Aldershot Yard.

Dan

Some of this construction could be in anticipation of CN's Milton Logistics Hub.

 

[crs1026]

Even since the third track was installed 15-ish years ago, CN has looked at other potential improvements through there to speed up their operations.

The last I heard about was that they were looking at installing a 4th track from Bayview to Snake (the west end of Aldershot Yard). This would allow them to completely separate their operations between the west end of the Oakville Sub into Hamilton and the operations from the Dundas Sub, and thus give them more capacity through the yard itself. That section is busy enough that it regularly takes freight trains several hours to traverse the couple of miles between Hamilton Yard and Aldershot Yard.

Dan

Those embankments will take a lot of work to widen. Just money, and I'm sure CN will hold out to the bitter end to see if ML or VIA will fund.

- Paul

 

[EnviroTO]

Canada’s Grade Crossing Regulations forbid the construction of at-grade crossings for speeds in excess of 177 km/h (110 mph) or with Freeways:

Wow, they really aimed low with that law. In Canada this law would never apply. Next up, trains must give way to Starships.

 

[Urban Sky]

Wow, they really aimed low with that law. In Canada this law would never apply. Next up, trains must give way to Starships.

I’m not sure what exactly you are trying to say, but in Germany (and most countries I’m aware of), this limit is at 160 km/h.

 

[EnviroTO]

What I am saying is that the goal of such a law is to reduce risk of deadly collisions. The law could have been that new roads crossing railways with passengers whipping by at 140km/h shouldn't be allowed and really pushed the provinces and municipalities to create more grade separations and improve safety. How many roads have been proposed in Canada to have a level crossing on a railway line with 177km/h train speeds? Where are these railway segments that this law applies to? How has this law improved safety in Canada?

 

[Urban Sky]

What I am saying is that the goal of such a law is to reduce risk of deadly collisions. The law could have been that new roads crossing railways with passengers whipping by at 140km/h shouldn't be allowed and really pushed the provinces and municipalities to create more grade separations and improve safety. How many roads have been proposed in Canada to have a level crossing on a railway line with 177km/h train speeds? Where are these railway segments that this law applies to? How has this law improved safety in Canada?

You are right, it’s indeed the only piece of Canadian rail regulations I’ve seen so far which acknowledges that anything beyond 100 mph (160 km/h) exists. However, I believe that section (b) in that rule refers to a formula (something like cars per day times design speed) which determines when road crossings must be grade-seperated (i.e. the busier said road, the lower the permittable speed limit)…

 

[crs1026]

^The issue with grade separation is simply, if someone proposed a more restrictive standard that required more grade separations, someone would have to pay for them.

There are certainly situations where grade separation is a no brainer, but one has to remember what the Railway Safety Act states as its default:

Road users to give way

26.2 The users of a road shall give way to railway equipment at a road crossing if adequate warning of its approach is given.

So long as the lights, bells, and gates are operating correctly - the crossing is properly protected. Motorists, beware.

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

I’m not sure what exactly you are trying to say, but in Germany (and most countries I’m aware of), this limit is at 160 km/h.

UK appears to allow 200km/h but only for some crossing types. https://abcrailwayguide.uk/helpston-public-level-crossing-peterborough

 

[micheal_can]

Canada’s Grade Crossing Regulations forbid the construction of at-grade crossings for speeds in excess of 177 km/h (110 mph) or with Freeways:
View attachment 516322

Grade Crossings Regulations

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

If I understand this, that means we could see good incremental changes on the line to get the speed up to to this limit. To be fair, 177 km./hr pr100mph isn't nothing to sneeze at when existing trains along the Corridor can do 90mph. Full grade separation could be done piecemeal such that once thy are ready to spend the bigger money for converting it to HSR, the crossings won;t be the problem.

 

[smallspy]

Those embankments will take a lot of work to widen. Just money, and I'm sure CN will hold out to the bitter end to see if ML or VIA will fund.

- Paul

There is some suspicion that this is exactly what CN is waiting for. They had already told Metrolinx well before COVID that they should start planning for a 4th track through that stretch.

Dan

 

[Urban Sky]

What I am saying is that the goal of such a law is to reduce risk of deadly collisions. The law could have been that new roads crossing railways with passengers whipping by at 140km/h shouldn't be allowed and really pushed the provinces and municipalities to create more grade separations and improve safety. How many roads have been proposed in Canada to have a level crossing on a railway line with 177km/h train speeds? Where are these railway segments that this law applies to? How has this law improved safety in Canada?

You are right, it’s indeed the only piece of Canadian rail regulations I’ve seen so far which acknowledges that anything beyond 100 mph (160 km/h) exists. However, I believe that section (b) in that rule refers to a formula (something like cars per day times design speed) which determines when road crossings must be grade-seperated (i.e. the busier said road, the lower the permittable speed limit)…

For what it’s worth, the 110 mph limit matches the FRA limit for level crossings, which suggests that they simply copied it over from their American counterparts and would explain how they set it at a speed for which not even track classes have been defined…

At least they didn’t copy over the exception for 111-125 mph, if any railroad would bother to put up with errecting „impenetrable barriers“:

https://railroads.dot.gov/highway-rail-crossing-and-trespasser-programs/railroad-crossing-safety/engineering#

 

[roger1818]

You are right, it’s indeed the only piece of Canadian rail regulations I’ve seen so far which acknowledges that anything beyond 100 mph (160 km/h) exists. However, I believe that section (b) in that rule refers to a formula (something like cars per day times design speed) which determines when road crossings must be grade-seperated (i.e. the busier said road, the lower the permittable speed limit)…

Canada’s grade separation assessment guidelines can be found here. They were created in 2018 in response to the VIA Rail/OC Transpo bus collision.in 2013. I gather that before these were created, Canada didn’t have any official guidelines for where grade separations should be located and studies would borrow guidelines from other countries.

EDIT: digging a bit deeper, these guidelines seem rather conservative. For example, they say the one of the thresholds for grade separation. is a cross product of 1 million, but a study done in 2017 about several crossings in Ottawa says the threshold should be 200,000. My guess is that Transport Canada knows that hundreds, if not thousands, of level crossings, would need to be grade separated if they set the bar too high.