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The point of an EA is not to count sparrows, it's to inventory what the impacts are, collect public input, and determine if/what mitigation is required. VIA may have reams of technical data, but they have to come out and lay that before the EA process, hear from the public, and respond.

- Paul

Would you expect that this would be a federal EA? Any more thoughts on the duration or the types of things it would look at unique to the Havelock Sub? Would it be end-to-end? USRC-Peterboro-Havelock-Smith's Falls-Ottawa-Montreal? Or broken up into sections? Would there be more intense EAs for the grade separations @Urban Sky noted?
 
This is probably the thing that triggers my reservations most. I understand that the VIA plan is not HFR, and I support not going to HSR .....but.... Thirty years passes quickly. If this line becomes the backbone for Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal, it needs to be futureproofed to permit sensible upgrades over the years. When VIA says, we aren't aiming for High Speed, they are saying, this line has very little upside and is not scalable. That's not sensible.

I have to agree with other posters that VIA has chosen this route because it is the most doable under current budgets, regulatory regimes and public/poltitical attitudes. The reality that the line is unwanted by freight railroads makes its acquisition cheap and easy. We can debate relative construction costs (I accept VIA knows things we don't) but it's the old maxim - never buy the cheapest thing available on the market, it is never the cheapest over the longer term. The next most expensive option is not that much more costly, and it brings greater benefits.

If this line isn't scalable for the long term, just don't do it, at any price.
- Paul
It seems to me that if the new line is successful and becomes the backbone of the Corridor, there could still be incremental upgrades that could be done. Only about 1/3 of the line between Toronto and Ottawa is on the Canadian Shield. The other 2/3 could have upgrades done in the future to increase speed and capacity relatively cheaply.

And purely speculating here, but if there's ever a need for true HSR in the future, that would undoubtedly be a new line altogether, most likely roughly following the Kingston route as recommended by previous studies. There's plenty of precedent for incremental upgrades to conventional lines while a future HSR would follow an entirely new route. This line would build ridership in the Corridor and make HSR in the future the next logical step.

Via tried to get HSR built for decades. "Higher speed" proposals on the existing route like ViaFast have come and gone with nothing to show for them. This plan actually has a chance of succeeding where others failed. Every other idea has been tried.

Since you bring up old maxims, here's one: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or to put it another way, if we keep insisting on all or nothing, we'll continue to get nothing.
 
Would you expect that this would be a federal EA? Any more thoughts on the duration or the types of things it would look at unique to the Havelock Sub? Would it be end-to-end? USRC-Peterboro-Havelock-Smith's Falls-Ottawa-Montreal? Or broken up into sections? Would there be more intense EAs for the grade separations @Urban Sky noted?

I'm not an expert on the structure of EA's, I mostly just know that they are necessary and in the public interest. (Digression - this is the sort of thing that a VIA Rail Canada Act might clarify authority and perhaps avoid the long way around)

Things that I would expect VIA to have to address on the abandoned portion of the Havelock line would be
- Having never had an EA process prior to abandonment, we have little baseline data on what important/endangered species are resident close to the ROW, and might be affected - both flora and fauna.
- Impact of new bridge and culvert (re)construction on specific waterways - I rely on comments in Collenette's report to believe that existing bridges may not be up to code for higher speed operation, and would possibly be replaced from the ground up. Any construction over a waterway needs environmental analysis.
- Impact of changes to fill, drainage on water flow and water levels in various creeks and streams and wetlands, and resulting impact on aquatic wildlife
- Tree cutting required and impact on wildlife - bird nesting etc. Plans to reforest in situ or in exchange for loss of forest cover
- Wildlife has had unfettered access across the ROW for the past 45 years...what is the impact of fencing the ROW to migration, breeding, access to food?
- Noise and vibration levels where there is either specific wildlife resident (see first bullet) or human inhabitation
- Impacts on cottages and recreational businesses - recreational fishing, marinas, lodging, access to lakes, constraints on hunting

The portion that is currently an operating railway might require some of those, particularly where new structures replace existing. Again, per Collenette, bridges in places such as Rouge Valley, Dranoel, Cavan, Peterboro, Indian River, Norwood might need major construction efforts. Some of those watersheds and natural habitats are sensitive.

I would expect the EA for the sections through Perth and eastern GTA to look much like TPAP's for GO expansion along ML lines.... sound walls, grade separation needs, vibration and noise, pedestrian access points, heritage impacts, in light of the proximity to suburban development and residential/commercial structures.

The restoration of the line in the Don Valley should require diligence equal to what other changes in that zone have received.

Wherever curves are reduced, there will be a new alignment, which while relatively short in length, could be be in fact a new line crossing terrain not previously used as a railway - so it deserves full analysis. (BTW, one of the curve realignments proposed back in the GO Peterboro study sits on a very large single tract of land with a single house - a very wealthy person's country estate. This is the sort of situation that generates legal challenge even if the local mayor is happy).

Throughout the project, road traffic levels and priorities for grade separation should be identified.

Fulfilling the legal obligation to consult First Nations fully and properly is absolutely essential.

I am not alleging any of these are showstoppers....although all it takes is one surprise about a rattlesnake colony or a bank swallow breeding area to bring a project back to the drawing board for a few months....or longer.

We've seen enough proponents with worthwhile project proposals bull ahead on the basis of a legal opinion.... only to get sent back by the courts to cross their t's. Better preparation and outreach up front means smoother sailing and no surprises.

- Paul
 
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As for aboriginal claims, history has shown us that this can be fairly easily solved by throwing money at it.

This may be true in the end, but the process of getting to yes may not be fast (in negotiation, the party with the lead butt often wins). Hence the need to start early and not contaminate the process by looking like you intend to ram something through regardless of the input received.

- Paul
 
(Digression - this is the sort of thing that a VIA Rail Canada Act might clarify authority and perhaps avoid the long way around)
It's already in the Transportation Act. Which is why D-S has been referring to it time and again. I'd quote it, but all the relevant acts are being revised and the websites are just showing Short Versions right now. The quotes have been posted various times in this string.

The federal exemptions cover (IIRC) 'to 100 metres each side of the centre line of the RoW', the same as allowing curves to be straightened within that envelope with no EA needed, save for "up to 3 km in length" for the latter. More aggressive straightening outside of that envelope could be done after operation of the line has restarted and the need for an EA not holding up service start. In the event, electric propulsion for this type of line renders the necessity for minimal grade straight track as unnecessary. Take a look at the grades for medium speed passenger lines in Europe, let alone high-speed like the TGV, which literally goes over many hills rather than around. The Pendolino was developed for exactly that need.

I do have a concern that the Chargers wouldn't be the most apt propulsion, or even to be dragged/pushed in a consist under electric propulsion the other end. Railjet (where the coach design originates) uses Siemens Taurus locos and "Railjet ranks among the fastest trains hauled by locomotives in the world. According to TSI, the Railjet ranks among TSI class II high-speed trains."
-
ÖBB Railjet high-speed trains – technology that moves
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/article/72907/obb-railjet-technology/

The Railjet uses some very curvaceous track! Meantime, Alstom and Siemens continue their merger, and this remains a distinct possibility to maximize performance on the HFR:
The Class 390 Pendolino is a type of electric high-speed train operated by Virgin Trains in the United Kingdom, leased from Angel Trains.[8] They are electric multiple units using Fiat Ferroviaria's tilting train Pendolino technology and built by Alstom. Fifty-three units were originally built between 2001 and 2004 for operation on the West Coast Main Line (WCML). The 8-car units were all later lengthened to 9 cars, then an additional four trains and also a further 62 cars were built between 2009 and 2012. The trains of the original batch were the last to be assembled at Alstom's Washwood Heath plant, before its closure in 2005. The remaining trains in the fleet were built in Italy.

The Class 390 is one of the fastest domestic electric multiple units operating in Britain, with a design speed of 140 mph (225 km/h); however, limitations to track signalling systems restrict the units to a maximum speed of 125 mph (200 km/h) in service. [...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_390
 
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A family friend live in the city of North Bay where the future divided highway will go right through. They have been told that if they move the government will be buying their property for market value. Or, when it comes time for the highway to be built, they will be given market value and then their how will be bulldozed.

Pretty sure that if there are buildings in the way of the future VIA line, they will have been told a similar thing.
 
Perhaps the first point that may need clarification is whether this stretch is, in fact and law, a railway right of way.
 
Speaking of HFR, Pendolino, Alstom and Siemens, this just up at the Reuters website: (Globe carrying this but Subscriber Only)
FOO YUN CHEE AND JORN POLTZ
BRUSSELS AND FRANKFURT
REUTERS
PUBLISHED 1 HOUR AGO UPDATED DECEMBER 17, 2018

Siemens and Alstom have offered to sell either one of their high-speed train technologies to address EU antitrust concerns about their plan to create a Franco-German rail champion, people familiar with the matter said on Monday.
The other element of their proposal to the European Commission includes selling the bulk of Alstom’s signalling business in Europe in addition to some Siemens signalling assets, one of the people said.
German industrial group Siemens and French rival Alstom put in their offer last week, saying that it was made up mainly of signalling activities and stock products which made up around 4 per cent of the sales of the combined company.
The companies have offered to divest either Alstom’s Pendolino platform or Siemens’ Velaro Novo platform, the people said.
Pendolino, which features a tilting technology that results in less braking before bends, is tailored for high-speed and conventional lines. Pendolino trains have been sold to 12 operators in 12 countries. Siemens’ Velaro Novo high-speed trains, on the other hand, will only enter service in 2023.[...]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-speed-train-technology-sources-idUSKBN1OG25I
 
Another factor to consider is the capacity of the CP Belleville Subdivision between Glen Tay and Smiths Falls to handle the additional trackage. It appears to be fairly wide (used to be double track?). Also, the necessity to acquire property to enable a transition to the Via (Ottawa sub?) at Smiths Falls.
 
Another factor to consider is the capacity of the CP Belleville Subdivision between Glen Tay and Smiths Falls to handle the additional trackage. It appears to be fairly wide (used to be double track?). Also, the necessity to acquire property to enable a transition to the Via (Ottawa sub?) at Smiths Falls.
Single track most of the way is suffice. Modern signalling and control systems are very effective. There's room next to the current extant CP trackage at the northern end, which used to be double tracked. This is all discussed in detail earlier in the string. German ICE and some Japanese examples stand as precedents. HFR only expects to have one hour intervals, and the stations can have passing tracks.

Here's a reference:
Design of single-track rail line for high-speed trains
Transportation Research Part A: General
Volume 21, Issue 1, January 1987, Pages 47-57

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0191260787900239

Signalling and control have come a long way even in the generation since then.
 
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A family friend live in the city of North Bay where the future divided highway will go right through. They have been told that if they move the government will be buying their property for market value. Or, when it comes time for the highway to be built, they will be given market value and then their how will be bulldozed.

Pretty sure that if there are buildings in the way of the future VIA line, they will have been told a similar thing.
Be aware that railways, under the Transportation and other Acts, if federally regulated, (most provinces have equivalent powers for provincially regulated ones) have extraordinary powers of expropriation via federal regulators and precedence over provincial powers:
Canada Transportation Act (S.C. 1996, c. 10)
[...]
  • Works for the general advantage of Canada
    (3) A railway or a portion of a railway mentioned in paragraph (2)(b) is declared to be a work for the general advantage of Canada.
  • Marginal note:Cessation of declaration
    (4) A declaration by subsection (3) or by any other Act of Parliament that a railway is a work for the general advantage of Canada, or for the advantage of two or more provinces, ceases to have effect with respect to a line of the railway, or a portion of it, whose operation is discontinued under Division V or is the subject of a transfer under that Division to a person other than a company mentioned in paragraph (2)(b).
Marginal note:Special Act railways declared to be works for general advantage of Canada

89 If the construction or operation of a railway is authorized by a Special Act passed by the legislature of a province and the railway is declared by an Act of Parliament to be a work for the general advantage of Canada, this Part applies to the railway to the exclusion of any general railway Act of the province and any provisions of the Special Act that are inconsistent with this Part.
[...]
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-10.4/page-14.html

In the case of HFR as planned and projected, that power shouldn't be needed, as no private property will be affected; When the line was abandoned, provincial protections were already extant to deny building permits on the RoW of this and many other RoWs, many or most of which are now or able to become trails and/or future transportation and/or communications/utility corridors.

Some other points to consider under the Transportation Act: (Note: The federal websites posting the various railway acts are difficult to navigate right now, and whole sections are unavailable.)
[...]

General Powers of Railway Companies
Marginal note: Powers

  • 95 (1) Subject to the provisions of this Part and any other Act of Parliament, a railway company may exercise the following powers for the purpose of constructing or operating its railway:
    • (a) make or construct tunnels, embankments, aqueducts, bridges, roads, conduits, drains, piers, arches, cuttings and fences across or along a railway, watercourse, canal or road that adjoins or intersects the railway;
    • (b) divert or alter the course of a watercourse or road, or raise or lower it, in order to carry it more conveniently across or along the railway;
    • (c) make drains or conduits into, through or under land adjoining the railway for the purpose of conveying water from or to the railway;
    • (d) divert or alter the position of a water pipe, gas pipe, sewer or drain, or telegraph, telephone or electric line, wire or pole across or along the railway; and
    • (e) do anything else necessary for the construction or operation of the railway.
  • Marginal note:Minimal damage
    (2) The railway company shall do as little damage as possible in the exercise of the powers.
  • Marginal note:Restoration
    (3) If the railway company diverts or alters anything mentioned in paragraph (1)(b) or (d), the company shall restore it as nearly as possible to its former condition, or shall put it in a condition that does not substantially impair its usefulness.
  • Marginal note:Compensation
    (4) The railway company shall pay compensation to a person who sustains actual loss or damage from the exercise of the powers and the compensation must equal the amount of the loss or damage that the company would be liable to pay the person if the powers had not been conferred by statute.
  • [...]
  • Land Transfer
    Marginal note:Land taken pursuant to section 134 of Railway Act
    • 96 (1) Where a railway company took possession of, used or occupied land under section 134 of the Railway Act before the coming into force of section 185, the railway company may not alienate the land except to transfer it to a railway company for the purpose of continuing railway operations or to the Crown.
    • Marginal note:Alienation to other persons
      (2) The land may be transferred to any other person for the purpose of continuing railway operations if
      • (a) in the case of land in Quebec, the transfer involves only a lease or a dismemberment of the right of ownership; or
      • (b) in the case of land in any other province, the transfer does not involve a transfer of the fee simple in the land.
    • Marginal note:Continuing application to subsequent transfers
      (3) If land is transferred under subsection (1) or (2) to any person other than the Crown in right of Canada, subsequent transfers of the land are subject to the same limitations as those contained in this section.
    • Marginal note:Existing rights
      (4) A transfer of land under this section does not affect any right or interest of a person, other than a railway company, that existed in the land immediately before the coming into force of section 185.
  • Marginal note:Land obtained for railway purposes
    • 97 (1) Subject to section 96, a railway company that obtained land from the Crown or any other person to assist in the construction or operation of its railway may acquire or transfer the land.
    • Marginal note:Transfer of authority
      (2) If the railway company transfers the land to another company that has entered into a contract for the construction or operation, in whole or in part, of the railway for which the land was obtained, the other company has the same authority under this section as the railway company had in respect of the land.
    • [...]
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-10.4/page-16.html#docCont

Note: [ 96 (1) Where a railway company took possession of, used or occupied land under section 134 of the Railway Act before the coming into force of section 185 ]
  • This was the case for the Ontario and Quebec Railway incorporated in 1871. (edit: Chartered 1881)
  • Not the reference I was looking for, but effectively the same implication:
  • [ the railway company may not alienate the land except to transfer it to a railway company for the purpose of continuing railway operations or to the Crown. ]
Edit to Add: For those interested:
The Canadian Railway Act R. S. C. (1906), cap. 37 : and amending acts 1907-1910, with notes of cases decided thereon including the decisions of the Board of Railway Commissioners respecting telephone, telegraph and express companies
can be downloaded here:
https://ia600206.us.archive.org/0/items/cu31924016968178/cu31924016968178.pdf
 
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yes, I expect the corridor to be mostly single track, at least initially. Throw a few passing tracks along and you are good. It saves costs for things like twinning the large bridge over the Don Valley as well.

Another reason why electrification is likely considered to be so cheap. It's a long distance to electrify, sure, but it's mostly single track and only needs to service very low electrical loads (one 3-4 car train every hour). This means transformers can be placed very far apart and most costs are probably going to just be the stringing of the wire.

I imagine that after initial service launch, VIA will over the years slowly upgrade to increase service speeds and frequencies. Maybe start to grade separate some portions and allow for some 200km/h operations, maybe double track some more sections to bring in higher frequencies, etc. The beauty of a dedicated line is that they will have that ability.

I would also like to see some Toronto-Montreal express trains, perhaps using the CP line between Montreal and Smith Falls to by-pass Ottawa.
 

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