[littlewill1166]

With people returning to office there is demand returning for commuter services. If that's not the business VIA wants to be in then maybe they should pass the baton.

They are, many people in London who used to drive to the station, park their car, and take VIA 82 to Toronto. Now they are driving straight to Toronto or Aldershot (and taking the GO Train in). The baton has been mostly passed to the car/GO. It's not like people were sitting on their hands at home, not going anywhere. I'm going to echo what's been said here and in the TTC discussion, many who didn't have cars before COVID now have them.

The remaining people are either taking the milk run GO Train, Megabus, or fully remote working permanently.

Passing the baton doesn't have to mean directly replacing one train for another. Sometimes the optimal transportation strategy is a combination of car, bus, rail, air, or no transportation at all. You have to look at the big picture when making transportation decisions.

Moving on to GO, there are the reasons others have already stated for not using GO rolling stock. But further, many of the Bilevels are being sent to Ontario Northland and Alstom for refurbishment in the coming months. Thus, GO itself will also have an equipment shortage soon.

Rail capacity is likely going to be constrained until the end of the year, VIA and GO are telling commuters to consider alternatives in the interim based on their pricing/scheduling strategy (at least that's what I see as a former commuter, if anyone comes to a different conclusion, let me know).

 

[crs1026]

I don't know if the LRC's are that bad. But if they were you would see them removed from service.

Some of them are. I haven’t seen exact car numbers reported anywheres, but there are reports that some are already permanently out of service.

Some may be rotted out sufficently to be condemned…. beyond that, VIA will likely have already wound down its spare parts procurement for LRC specific items. At some point the junkers become the only available parts inventory. And there will be a moratorium or control process on repairs over some defined value. You don’t put new tires on the car you are about to trade in.

This being government, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is also a book-keeping override…. the whole program is a 1:1 replacement for the existing fleet, after all. Some minion in Treasury may be watching to make sure that VIA’s seat count doesn’t rise, causing some blip in the asset collumn on the balance sheet. That may sound paranoid, but I have worked in the public sector.

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

If VIA needs coaches couldn’t they borrow from Northland the stock they supposedly have to run Timmins - Toronto real soon now?

Seeing the MPP for Peterborough South chide the feds for not reinstating 651, which amounts to a commuter service, while throwing money at sending GO to London… why not send a GO set out to Cobourg if you’re that bothered?

 

[Allandale25]

^ Wasn't it the MP?

 

[ssiguy2]

I think VIA will eventually abdicate the entire London-KW-Toronto route to GO and put all it's focus on the much more profitable and direct Windsor-London-Oakville route. Whether that's a good thing is yet to be seen. VIA doesn't seem the least bit interested in improving service.

VIA will never electrify the SWO corridor and I still think the chances of them electrifying the Tor-Ott-Mon-QC is somewhat dubious. It will require not only untold billions to electrify the Corridor but also will mean all the new locos they just got will have to be gutted and turned into electric trains which isn't cheap. I think they will go with hydrogen Locos and save themselves the monstrous {and very time consuming} catenary and train retro-fit costs.

 

[Bordercollie]

If VIA needs coaches couldn’t they borrow from Northland the stock they supposedly have to run Timmins - Toronto real soon now?

Seeing the MPP for Peterborough South chide the feds for not reinstating 651, which amounts to a commuter service, while throwing money at sending GO to London… why not send a GO set out to Cobourg if you’re that bothered?

Well that makes you wonder why they are bothering to build a bridge over the 401 to use the Belleville sub and build new stations if they could just run trains on the Kingston sub.

Brighton doesn't have a stop, Newcastle doesn't have a stop and those could be served by GO.

 

[rbt]

If VIA needs coaches couldn’t they borrow from Northland the stock they supposedly have to run Timmins - Toronto real soon now?

Timmins rail service is 4+ years away. That $75M was engineering, planning, and EA money.

 

[Urban Sky]

I think VIA will eventually abdicate the entire London-KW-Toronto route to GO and put all it's focus on the much more profitable and direct Windsor-London-Oakville route. Whether that's a good thing is yet to be seen. VIA doesn't seem the least bit interested in improving service.

Yawn (as in: long-debunked misconceptions don't get more accurate or interesting by repeating them hundreds of times)! London-KW-Toronto has the population centers (Brampton, Guelph, KW), London-Aldershot-Toronto has the freight trains. It really doesn't take a genius to figure out which one is more suitable as an intercity passenger rail corridor...^^

VIA will never electrify the SWO corridor and I still think the chances of them electrifying the Tor-Ott-Mon-QC is somewhat dubious. It will require not only untold billions to electrify the Corridor but also will mean all the new locos they just got will have to be gutted and turned into electric trains which isn't cheap. I think they will go with hydrogen Locos and save themselves the monstrous {and very time consuming} catenary and train retro-fit costs.

VIA's fleet of 53 F40s will reach the end of their 40 year lifespan by the end of this decade. There won't be a shortage of routes to cascade any of the 32 Siemens Chargers to if the Corridor (or parts of it) electrify...

 

[cplchanb]

Yawn (as in: long-debunked misconceptions don't get more accurate or interesting by repeating them hundreds of times)! London-KW-Toronto has the population centers (Brampton, Guelph, KW), London-Aldershot-Toronto has the freight trains. It really doesn't take a genius to figure out which one is more suitable as an intercity passenger rail corridor...^^


VIA's fleet of 53 F40s will reach the end of their 40 year lifespan by the end of this decade. There won't be a shortage of routes to cascade any of the 32 Siemens Chargers to if the Corridor (or parts of it) electrify...

The last thing via needs is to split up a married set and butcher them like they did to the LRCs

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The last thing via needs is to split up a married set and butcher them like they did to the LRCs

It’s not as if the coaches are all that married to the Chargers, but even by the logic that any such rengining would be butchery, cascading the fleet to cover all of the current network (bearing in mind the lakeshore service levels VIA has spoken about) while wholly new units handle HFR would hardly create a notably oversized fleet.

While also being reasonably well suited to any kind of Alberta operation if it really comes to sending them elsewhere.

 

[cplchanb]

It’s not as if the coaches are all that married to the Chargers, but even by the logic that any such rengining would be butchery, cascading the fleet to cover all of the current network (bearing in mind the lakeshore service levels VIA has spoken about) while wholly new units handle HFR would hardly create a notably oversized fleet.

While also being reasonably well suited to any kind of Alberta operation if it really comes to sending them elsewhere.

via bought them as semi permanent trainsets so they should stay that way to simplify maintenance and logistics. They are a passenger railroad so they should run like one with their rolling stock. No mixing around like freight trains

 

[ssiguy2]

VIA is going to have to de-carbonize it's entire network and the only way to do it is hydrogen. Can you imagine VIA putting up 7,000 km of catenary?

This is why, even if they electrify the Tor-QC portion, they are going to have to go hydrogen with the entire rest of the country. This will be done with hydrogen locomotives, not fuel cells. Contrary to what some think, all fuel cells require hydrogen but not all hydrogen requires fuel cells. Hydrogen locomotives, unlike fuell cells, are 100% ICE vehicles. Essentially it's kind of like transforming a diesel over to natural gas..................a different fuel source and some minor changes and new tanks but the engine stays the same. Compared to transforming diesel locos over to electric, it's a breeze and MUCH cheaper.

They don't enjoy any of the added benefits of electric like faster de/acceleration, higher potential speeds, cheaper maintenance, quieter ride, less vibrations, but they do have slightly less NO emissions {ie good old fashion pollution}. Really they only offer one meaningful benefit but it's a whopper...............no GHG emissions. This is why freight companies are looking at hydrogen locomotives as it is their only option for net-zero. The added benefit is that hydrogen infrastructure is growing and prices are plunging while oil is much higher than what was forecast just a few years ago and very soon will be equivalent in price as hydrogen prices could drop by upwards of 85% by the end of the decade.

 

[Urban Sky]

VIA is going to have to de-carbonize it's entire network and the only way to do it is hydrogen. Can you imagine VIA putting up 7,000 km of catenary?

This is why, even if they electrify the Tor-QC portion, they are going to have to go hydrogen with the entire rest of the country. This will be done with hydrogen locomotives, not fuel cells. Contrary to what some think, all fuel cells require hydrogen but not all hydrogen requires fuel cells. Hydrogen locomotives, unlike fuell cells, are 100% ICE vehicles. Essentially it's kind of like transforming a diesel over to natural gas..................a different fuel source and some minor changes and new tanks but the engine stays the same. Compared to transforming diesel locos over to electric, it's a breeze and MUCH cheaper.

They don't enjoy any of the added benefits of electric like faster de/acceleration, higher potential speeds, cheaper maintenance, quieter ride, less vibrations, but they do have slightly less NO emissions {ie good old fashion pollution}. Really they only offer one meaningful benefit but it's a whopper...............no GHG emissions. This is why freight companies are looking at hydrogen locomotives as it is their only option for net-zero. The added benefit is that hydrogen infrastructure is growing and prices are plunging while oil is much higher than what was forecast just a few years ago and very soon will be equivalent in price as hydrogen prices could drop by upwards of 85% by the end of the decade.

I can’t tell you how tiring it already is to just read (let alone: reply to) someone who just keeps re-vomiting the ever-same talking points at every cheap occasion without ever bothering to even acknowledge any of the debunking with which it gets reliably shot down.

Please consider finding yourself a different hobby (or at the very least: different victims), thank you!

Public Service Announcement to anyone who might feel tempted to correct his misconceptions yet another time: “Insanity is to try the same thing all over again, while expecting different results.”

 

[Bordercollie]

VIA is going to have to de-carbonize it's entire network and the only way to do it is hydrogen. Can you imagine VIA putting up 7,000 km of catenary?

This is why, even if they electrify the Tor-QC portion, they are going to have to go hydrogen with the entire rest of the country. This will be done with hydrogen locomotives, not fuel cells. Contrary to what some think, all fuel cells require hydrogen but not all hydrogen requires fuel cells. Hydrogen locomotives, unlike fuell cells, are 100% ICE vehicles. Essentially it's kind of like transforming a diesel over to natural gas..................a different fuel source and some minor changes and new tanks but the engine stays the same. Compared to transforming diesel locos over to electric, it's a breeze and MUCH cheaper.

They don't enjoy any of the added benefits of electric like faster de/acceleration, higher potential speeds, cheaper maintenance, quieter ride, less vibrations, but they do have slightly less NO emissions {ie good old fashion pollution}. Really they only offer one meaningful benefit but it's a whopper...............no GHG emissions. This is why freight companies are looking at hydrogen locomotives as it is their only option for net-zero. The added benefit is that hydrogen infrastructure is growing and prices are plunging while oil is much higher than what was forecast just a few years ago and very soon will be equivalent in price as hydrogen prices could drop by upwards of 85% by the end of the decade.

First of all with Tier 4 Locomotives, train travel is a lot greener than Driving. As for Toronto to Vancouver Flying may have less carbon impact due to the fact that it takes a plane 5 hours to cover that distance instead of a train that takes 5 days. It's just not the type of comparison you need to make. Rail Travel is most efficient within distances of 500Km, between highly populated urban centers. For a country as vast as Canada, unfortunately flying is going to be the only logical choice to travel from Toronto to Vancouver.

Also there are currently NO proven off the shelf technologies for Hydrogen Trains for long distances, so dont hold your breath on that one. And even if there was, what do you think it's going to cost to deliver Hydrogen on a truck from Quebec where it's currently made to Kamloops to fuel a locomotive. The emissions generated by the diesel truck to carry that fuel will make that pointless. Maybe one day when we figure out a more efficient way to generate hydrogen in a readily available, simple device using electricity and water then you have a chance.

 

[allengeorge]

VIA is going to have to de-carbonize it's entire network and the only way to do it is hydrogen.

I see we’ve moved on from GO Expansion using hydrogen to VIA using hydrogen.

I understand your perspective that this is the ‘only’ way to decarbonize over a long distance in Canada, but it may be worthwhile to only bring this up when there’s strong evidence. Right now this line keeps getting repeated without any supporting facts on the ground.