[micheal_can]

And that is not going to change. It's cheaper to build infrastructure in the GTA than elsewhere. Turning Sudbury into a 1M metro would probably bankrupt the province. Southern Ontario has some natural advantages and the GTA has even more, so it's no surprise that those places keep growing.

What the province should recognize is the massive in-built advantage of the Corridor and its ability to absorb more people. Instead of trying to grow North Bay and Timmins, let's try and grow Peterborough and Kingston to a million each. To this end, Ford should be talking a lot more about the need for VIA to improve (including HFR).

It is cheaper partly because the province subsidizes those services going there. Always has been. Always will be.

I've always believed that we should be growing our "secondary" cities if you will, and we cant keep just funneling and pumping growth in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. What the Feds should be focused on is making cities such as London, Windsor, Ottawa (just to name a few) more desirable places to live. Not that I would classify Sudbury as a secondary city, because it really isnt that. Part of that involves investing in reliable and frequent intra/inter-city transportation.

We've had various Federal governments who have failed at realizing this and they do the "easy" thing by pushing Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal to absorb the majority of the country's growth. The funny thing is, now it's having unintended consequences as the Feds are realizing that people are being pushed out to other cities such as Halifax and Kelowna which are struggling to absorb the rapid unexpected population increase.

VIA service needs to be improved substantially, but unfortunately the Feds these days have their heads in the gutter and prefer pushing out useless policies such as 1-time GST credit payments to the tune of ~$500 million. Not that the Trudeau government is the only one's at fault, Harper was way more useless when it came to VIA investments and exasperated the problems they have.

My only hope is that we see an investment of the LDF that brings a higher number of rolling stock. Maybe then the services outside the Corridor will see something more than what exists now.

 

[Natika33]

Before we even start talking about Sudbury, and Timmins there is still lots of space in Pickering, Ajax and Oshawa to be developed. Especially south of the 401 which was industrial at one point and is now vacant. But what we need is not 5 bedroom single holmes, but transit oriented developments. Even if it's on demand transit, and when I say a community there needs to be a grocery store, restaurants, movie theater and schools within a reasonable distance. Not drive 6km to Wallmart and then 2km to Canadian Tire and then another 5km to the doctors office. This is the problem with suburbs today, you need to have a car to get to where you are going. We need to build self sustaining communities such as what is planned where the Yonge subway will end. I believe Innisfil is another example where the station will become the hub. I'm not sure who owns the station properties along the corridor but all of them are perfect candidates to build a community. Kingston, Fallowfield, Belleville, Cobourg. If you built a community on the station property it would make it easier for people from Cobourg to commute to Oshawa, and seeing the prices in the GTA it wouldn't surprise me if living in Oshawa becomes too expensive in the next ten years.

And although VIA is not a commuter based service, it needs to adapt to the current conditions. Station parking lots aren't generating any revenue, but development rights do.

This should be done for all GO stations as well. Look at Old Cummer GO station, post pandemic it's usually half empty. Build condos there so that people can commute to work from their doorstep. Seems like a no brainer.

Oddly enough, there was a core group of commuters between KW/Guelph & Toronto back in the day before the GO was extended. Perhaps demand drove supply then. I agree with your idea to have more TODs. HSR would help too by making commuting possible from even further away, or at least make it easier for those from further away to get into TO or Montreal for meetings, hospital visits, whatever.

 

[kEiThZ]

It is cheaper partly because the province subsidizes those services going there. Always has been. Always will be.

It is cheaper because there are economies of scale and existing rail corridors that can be repurposed for cheap. No other city in the country is building anything close to GO RER. Nor can they. And that's includes major cities in other provinces. The legacy of old rail corridors is a massive natural advantage.

Also, the GTA is the net revenue generator for the province. If the GTA left tomorrow, the rest of the province wouldn't be able to afford nearly as much. This is the province investing in the goose that lays the golden eggs (GDP).

 

[kEiThZ]

My only hope is that we see an investment of the LDF that brings a higher number of rolling stock. Maybe then the services outside the Corridor will see something more than what exists now.

LDF renewal will be nice. I wouldn't hold my breath on expanded services..... There's no economic sense to improving services. And the list of needs ahead of improving long distance VIA services, on the priority list, will be long. Having to spend tens of millions per trainset, on LDF renewal, will make the cost of increasing service crystal clear for the politicians.

 

[micheal_can]

LDF renewal will be nice. I wouldn't hold my breath on expanded services..... There's no economic sense to improving services. And the list of needs ahead of improving long distance VIA services, on the priority list, will be long. Having to spend tens of millions per trainset, on LDF renewal, will make the cost of increasing service crystal clear for the politicians.

I'm not even holding my breath for a one to one replacement by the next government. Unless the contract gets signed before we go to an election, my fear is that the existing services get cut due to lack of safe equipment. I am some what hoping that in this budget there is something that says that they will spend the money to replace the LDF..

 

[kEiThZ]

I'm not even holding my breath for a one to one replacement by the next government. Unless the contract gets signed before we go to an election, my fear is that the existing services get cut due to lack of safe equipment.

This is all but impossible based on normal government procurement timelines. I'm not even sure they have a project office up. Let alone an RFP ready to go.

 

[Bordercollie]

This is all but impossible based on normal government procurement timelines. I'm not even sure they have a project office up. Let alone an RFP ready to go.

Would it be a 1 to 1 replacement of what they have or what they originally had including units that are retired due to corrosion and accidents.

 

[kEiThZ]

Would it be a 1 to 1 replacement of what they have or what they originally had including units that are retired due to corrosion and accidents.

No idea. The government decides what services and level of service VIA offers. Procurements will be planned based on that mandate. All I'm saying is that for any contract to be awarded before the next election, they would have to be much further along in the process.

Also, this government is now laser focused on trying to get housing ramped up. To that end, they need dollars that can be conditional. That's where transit funding comes in. VIA isn't a priority.

 

[micheal_can]

This is all but impossible based on normal government procurement timelines. I'm not even sure they have a project office up. Let alone an RFP ready to go.

Hence not holding my breath. If this budget at least had the allocation of funds, or however it is worded so that the process could start,I may have hope that the LD routes are not shut down due to lack of safe equipment. We still have a potential of one more budget that the process could continue. TBH, if it does not happen this budget, I give the LD routes 10 years before the last one shuts down due to lack of safe equipment.

 

[just east of the creek]

If I am allowed one more off-topic spin, the issues of growing season ("growing degree days") and distance to market have historically limited potential in the clay belts of n/e Ontario. Climate change has altered the season with crops like corn now appearing where it was previously not possible. Even at that, not all of the belts is arable. About half is still covered by trees (and clearing the land has its own issues) and much is poorly drained. Even with a longer season, if you can't get on the land with equipment it is of little value, and we are nowhere near a long enough season to permit a Holland Marsh-type economy.

There has been a small uptick in rail movements with transload sites in a ew places (basically a siding with an auger).

There are other pockets as well; the North Shore in the Thessalon area, around Thunder Bay and Dryden and small pockets east of Sudbury and south of North Bay. Thessalon and the Claybelt have seen a bit of resurgence, primarily from Mennonite families who have cashed in their southern lands and bought comparative bargoons in the north.

I agree. The Mennonite community has been very strong in these areas and even around the areas we farm in, the influx of Mexican Mennonites has been substantial and impactful. And we could go on, but maybe in a thread on UT agriculture (with a more 'urban' 905 region farming discussion)...and we can talk about spraying drones and how useless electrical pickup trucks are.....thanks for the information on clay belts.I have family interest there and after a long wait, opportunities are upticking. And not just in cattle.

Back to our regular scheduled programming?

 

[Bordercollie]

I agree. The Mennonite community has been very strong in these areas and even around the areas we farm in, the influx of Mexican Mennonites has been substantial and impactful. And we could go on, but maybe in a thread on UT agriculture (with a more 'urban' 905 region farming discussion)...and we can talk about spraying drones and how useless electrical pickup trucks are.....thanks for the information on clay belts.I have family interest there and after a long wait, opportunities are upticking. And not just in cattle.

Back to our regular scheduled programming?

In Japan they have made an effort to use intermodal trains where possible. Using 20 foot containers the freight train stops at a level crossing and a crane transfers the container to a truck for last mile travel.

So for example at night you could have a train travel from Toronto to Montreal and Toronto to Windsor and then by stopping at each station for 15 min reach the other end before 7am?

The problem with this is that it's probably easier just to just put it on a truck from point A to B.

There has to be an incentive for companies to use this, and it has to make logistical sense. If only we used the gas tax like this to encourage companies to lower their emissions.

 

[micheal_can]

In Japan they have made an effort to use intermodal trains where possible. Using 20 foot containers the freight train stops at a level crossing and a crane transfers the container to a truck for last mile travel.

So for example at night you could have a train travel from Toronto to Montreal and Toronto to Windsor and then by stopping at each station for 15 min reach the other end before 7am?

The problem with this is that it's probably easier just to just put it on a truck from point A to B.

There has to be an incentive for companies to use this, and it has to make logistical sense. If only we used the gas tax like this to encourage companies to lower their emissions.

The point of containerization was to make it faster to swap modes and make it more efficient.

As far as costs, although not containers, haul trucks for the mines are only used within 100km. After that,it is cheaper for the company to use rail. So, trucks are great for solving the last mile for shipping. The real problem is not enough space on existing rail infrastructure and not enough crews to run the trains. The after effects of the pandemic showed us that we have many issues in our supply chain that are choke points.

 

[Bordercollie]

The point of containerization was to make it faster to swap modes and make it more efficient.

As far as costs, although not containers, haul trucks for the mines are only used within 100km. After that,it is cheaper for the company to use rail. So, trucks are great for solving the last mile for shipping. The real problem is not enough space on existing rail infrastructure and not enough crews to run the trains. The after effects of the pandemic showed us that we have many issues in our supply chain that are choke points.

All you need is a siding with a paved road and a container carrier. You would need to use 10ft and ,20 foot containers. Like a POD.

 

[micheal_can]

All you need is a siding with a paved road and a container carrier. You would need to use 10ft and ,20 foot containers. Like a POD.

Or in each yard, have a crane for removing and loading containers.

 

[Bordercollie]

Or in each yard, have a crane for removing and loading containers.

You can use a mobile crane. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...ef&shem=abme,trie#vhid=RCO-Gnbypw4qxM&vssid=l