[Dan416]

Why don't Amtrak and VIA just cooperate on procuring their new fleets? Are there any major differences between their long distance fleets that would prevent them from working together (other than political considerations).

 

[Urban Sky]

Why don't Amtrak and VIA just cooperate on procuring their new fleets? Are there any major differences between their long distance fleets that would prevent them from working together (other than political considerations).

I doubt that they can legally pull off a joint procurement, especially given that they are subject to different trade agreements (e.g., CETA covers VIA, but not Amtrak). However, RFPs can be written in a way which facilitates a joint procurement…

 

[drum118]

I doubt that they can legally pull off a joint procurement, especially given that they are subject to different trade agreements (e.g., CETA covers VIA, but not Amtrak). However, RFPs can be written in a way which facilitates a joint procurement…

What happens to the Canadian, the Ocean and Amtrak long distance trains that requires sleepers and a cooking car for food??

I can see trainsets up to 11 cars long as in Europe that don't have sleepers as single level cars, but a few cars could become sleepers as well having a cooking car. Since the long distance is longer than 11 cars, there would have to be 2 sets set up the same way just like they do in Europe on most intercity trains.

I have seen different set up for dual trainsets and it depends on the line they are running where both sets are the same to one set is different from the other set.

The way I read to RFQ, you could have 2 or more suppliers building the trainsets and it must be known who they are and what they will be supplying when the bid is tender.

 

[micheal_can]

What happens to the Canadian, the Ocean and Amtrak long distance trains that requires sleepers and a cooking car for food??

I can see trainsets up to 11 cars long as in Europe that don't have sleepers as single level cars, but a few cars could become sleepers as well having a cooking car. Since the long distance is longer than 11 cars, there would have to be 2 sets set up the same way just like they do in Europe on most intercity trains.

I have seen different set up for dual trainsets and it depends on the line they are running where both sets are the same to one set is different from the other set.

The way I read to RFQ, you could have 2 or more suppliers building the trainsets and it must be known who they are and what they will be supplying when the bid is tender.

Could we have different tenders for different cars? For instance, the sleepers are made by a different company than the kitchen cars,and the coaches, etc? Would that allow for the potential of getting the best we can at the lowest bid?

 

[drum118]

Could we have different tenders for different cars? For instance, the sleepers are made by a different company than the kitchen cars,and the coaches, etc? Would that allow for the potential of getting the best we can at the lowest bid?

I see no reason that an RFQ/RFP can issue saying how a trainset is to be made up and it is up to the bidder how they handle it by using different suppliers noting who they are, what they will be supplying and the timeline as well for them in their bid.

 

[nfitz]

I doubt that they can legally pull off a joint procurement, especially given that they are subject to different trade agreements (e.g., CETA covers VIA, but not Amtrak). However, RFPs can be written in a way which facilitates a joint procurement…

I'd think the easiest way would be for the second party to not do an RFP at all, but sole-source it, taking options off an existing contact.

Which is essentially how ION got their Flexitys.

 

[dowlingm]

Did anything preclude two companies teaming together, with one building the passenger cars, and the other the locomotives?

It didn’t - but the conditions would still have to be met by the package offered.

 

[dowlingm]

Could we have different tenders for different cars? For instance, the sleepers are made by a different company than the kitchen cars,and the coaches, etc? Would that allow for the potential of getting the best we can at the lowest bid?

Potentially - look at how both VIA and Amtrak mix and match coach types now. But ideally it would be doable without messing around with transition cars (as on Ocean with Renaissance cars) to work around differing couplers, and having a train management system which talks to all cars would probably be difficult (if not impossible - I am not conversant with the protocols those systems use).

 

[micheal_can]

Potentially - look at how both VIA and Amtrak mix and match coach types now. But ideally it would be doable without messing around with transition cars (as on Ocean with Renaissance cars) to work around differing couplers, and having a train management system which talks to all cars would probably be difficult (if not impossible - I am not conversant with the protocols those systems use).

My expectation is they all would have the same standard being used so that there is no transition cars needed.

 

[dowlingm]

Why don't Amtrak and VIA just cooperate on procuring their new fleets? Are there any major differences between their long distance fleets that would prevent them from working together (other than political considerations).

Explicitly tethering VIA to an Amtrak order basically means choosing to buy a product which largely benefits American companies.

https://railroads.dot.gov/legislation-regulations/buy-america/buy-america-fras-high-speed-intercity-passenger-rail-program

Exo identified a seat manufacturer for their CRRC order to meet an increase in Quebec’s CanCon requirements, but for many components it would be difficult to acquire them from a separate supply chain without triggering significant additional costs and possibly separate testing regimes. https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/ec...chinois-livres-avec-plus-dun-an-de-retard.php

 

[dowlingm]

My expectation is they all would have the same standard being used so that there is no transition cars needed.

then you are relying on the different manufacturers delivering their products in similar timeframes so that consists could be fully operational. A bunch of sleepers would not be of much use if the other coaches types were late and the HEP fleet could not interoperate with them in the meantime

 

[micheal_can]

then you are relying on the different manufacturers delivering their products in similar timeframes so that consists could be fully operational. A bunch of sleepers would not be of much use if the other coaches types were late and the HEP fleet could not interoperate with them in the meantime

What I meant is that the existing LDF hook ups, whether it be the knuckle used, or the power supplied, it should all be standardized. That standardization should start with the existing fleet's current hookups notwithstanding the ex UK equipment.

 

[Bordercollie]

What I meant is that the existing LDF hook ups, whether it be the knuckle used, or the power supplied, it should all be standardized. That standardization should start with the existing fleet's current hookups notwithstanding the ex UK equipment.

Likely the new fleet will have a new computerized monitoring system which can be managed by the trainmaster. In order for it to work you would need the cars to work in series (similar to how the CSA operates the doors on a GO train).

Also for such a system to work seamlessly you would want to use one vendor in order for it to work properly.

 

[crs1026]

Both Superliner and Viewliner fleets were procured with the premise of a. standardised and convertable carbody across different car types.

That wisdom is likely to prevail with VIA, given the economies of scale that allows. Setting up a separate fabrication line for different car types would add a lot of cost.

Interoperability of IT and other systems across multiple vendors is doable in theory, although proprietary systems may complicate the search for competing bidders, as each bidder may propose their own technology. What may be harder would be if some features such as full width diaphragms were sought.... as car dimensions and appliance layout might have to be absolutely uniform. Mismatch in car dimensions might not be advisable.

So I'm inclined to predict a single order covering the entire fleet.

Hopefully some of the things mentioned here find its way onto VIA's spec list.... and for once there is good value in a bit of public consultation about amenities and features. There's enough time for some creative brainstorming..... although one assumes VIA will also dust off its 1985 spec, and look at Amtrak specs, and maybe some others.

So - for once the fantasy discussion is worth having.... what features would UTers most want to have in a new long distance spec?

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

Both Superliner and Viewliner fleets were procured with the premise of a. standardised and convertable carbody across different car types.

That wisdom is likely to prevail with VIA, given the economies of scale that allows. Setting up a separate fabrication line for different car types would add a lot of cost.

Interoperability of IT and other systems across multiple vendors is doable in theory, although proprietary systems may complicate the search for competing bidders, as each bidder may propose their own technology. What may be harder would be if some features such as full width diaphragms were sought.... as car dimensions and appliance layout might have to be absolutely uniform. Mismatch in car dimensions might not be advisable.

So I'm inclined to predict a single order covering the entire fleet.

Hopefully some of the things mentioned here find its way onto VIA's spec list.... and for once there is good value in a bit of public consultation about amenities and features. There's enough time for some creative brainstorming..... although one assumes VIA will also dust off its 1985 spec, and look at Amtrak specs, and maybe some others.

So - for once the fantasy discussion is worth having.... what features would UTers most want to have in a new long distance spec?

- PUl

But are locomotives part of the package? Or is that separate?