[theman23]

Its amazing how badly this entire situation was handled. Obviously it was the 4 cops who made the biggest mistake, but everyone, from immigration processing to the higher ups in the RCMP who wanted to cover this up, should be held accountable for what happened. I'm actually surprised because, it seems to me, there is little outrage over the attempted cover up.

 

[Zephyr]

When you significantly outnumber the offending party, have no weapons to deal with once you are there, and you could have overpowered and handcuffed without the use of a taser, although even that measure did not seem necessary - it all carries a foul odour. Then to get caught in obvious lies that indicate a feeble attempt at a coverup in the early stages of investigation, makes it difficult for anyone to give the benefit of the doubt, especially when a person's life was taken in the course of that day.

This matter needs to get to the courts soon, and it needs to be prioritised when it gets there. If the court sustains what appears to be the case at present - meaning what we can see on the videos and in the transcript - the punishment will have to be such that we will not think that anyone, including the RCMP, is above the law. I'd be interested as to how the RCMP will have their side defended, since their public statements thus far have left a great deal to be desired, and digs their hole much deeper.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Taser death in Vancouver - Interesting...

Everyone: I looked at the video myself-I find it interesting that four officers could not subdue this man any other way-a beanbag or just a takedown maybe? Until I saw this on the UT forum here-I saw or heard NOTHING about this. I feel that Tasers have their place but as seen here they could deal a fatal shock to someone also. It is quite interesting....LI MIKE

 

[afransen]

I think even using a mild sedative in a tranquilizer dart might not be a bad idea.

On the other hand, just about any means of subduing someone forcefully invokes a nonzero probability of death.

 

[Thomistica]

Hello all!

This seems to be a no-win situation to me:

A) If the 4 RCMPs are found NOT GUILTY then the RCMP will loose whatever respect the public have left for them and a feeling of injustice/cover-up will surely ripple throughout our nation. RCMP will need to redesign their image and erase whatever memory the public have of this incident.

B) If they are found GUILTY of whatever crime they are charged with then their careers are finished and a MASSIVE settlement will likely be paid to the families of the victim. That settlement, if I may remind you, will most certainly come from our tax-dollars. The average Canadian paying for the crimes of 4 RCMPs seems unfair to me.

 

[Zephyr]

Sometimes the tax payer argument wilts when the matter is as potentially explosive as this one. As the saying goes - "Do the Right Thing".

The suit will be brought on anyway, and if it is determined that RCMP has violated the law, which they ostensibly are hired to execute (perhaps a poor choice of words), justice is in treating them like all other citizens should be treated - no worse, no better. Remember, the ultimate consequences in this case could be a combination of settlement, jail time for up to four RCMP, and possible dismissal(s).

In all honesty, does anybody with responsibility have the backbone to follow through on any of these latter possibilities? You want to say yes, but would you? And on a final note, how would the RCMP likely respond if the scenario unfolds in the worse possible direction?

These are just some of the troubling implications brought about by these actions. To say nothing of the black eye it gives the nation abroad. Before it is over, we can only hope that those involved will be more fearful of letting this happen once again - and we would hope that they would treat their responsibilities with more regard for human life, and not just their own.

 

[unimaginative2]

There is absolutely no chance of jail time for any of these officers. I would be astonished if they were dismissed.

 

[ShonTron]

What could be the worst possible job in the RCMP? I know the OPP could send you to some backwater if you were a problem, instead of plum detachments like Downsview, Port Credit or the outer 905 communities like Caledon. The OPP, remember, has jurisdiction in many fly-in communities. Even a place like Still River, half way between Parry Sound and Sudbury, wouldn't be fun.

The RCMP has the territories under their jurisidiction, for instance. While I wouldn't wish these four goons on anyone (so no beat duties), I think a desk job in Rankin Inlet sounds like a nice transfer. Or managing an evidence room in Inuvik. But that's only if they don't get the manslaughter charges they so deserve. Dismissal with severance pay is too good for them.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Late last night CNN reported three more deaths from police tasers since the Robert Dziekanski's video hit the media last week.

 

[Zephyr]

Depressing ...

 

[Blixtein]

This incident is beyond outrageous. Any four bouncers would have handled this situation far better than these RCMP thugs.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Taser fends off attacks after suspected stun gun deaths

Nov 20 07:06 PM US/Eastern


The US manufacturer of the Taser stun gun was on the defensive Tuesday after three more men died this week in separate incidents having been stunned by police.

The three men, all in their early 20s, were reported to have died in the United States -- one in Florida, one in Maryland, and one in New Mexico -- days after an amateur video was released to the media, showing Canadian police repeatedly tasering a Polish man at Vancouver airport.

That man, Robert Dziekanski, 40, fell to the ground and died after the police officers piled on top of him.

In a statement issued after the release of the video showing Dziekanski being tasered and dying, the Arizona-based company said similar deaths have been shown by "medical science and forensic analysis" to be "attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical discharge of the Taser."

Taser says on its website that its M26 TASER, which is used by police, delivers a "maximum voltage ... across the body of the target of about 5,000 volts, with only 1.3 volts average."

The Canadian Mounted Police though said on its website that the instruments they use pulse 50,000 volts at 26 watts for up to five seconds into suspects.

Taser said the media have been too hasty in pinning the blame for deaths on the stun gun. "The media doesn't understand the technology. Everyone wants us to be guilty and therefore they don't have to look any further than the end of their nose," a spokesperson for Taser told AFP.

Taser founder Tom Smith has strenuously denied that the stun gun was the cause of Dziekanski's death.

"The video of the incident at Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the Taser application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the Taser causing cardiac arrest," Smith has said in a statement.

"His continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death."

 

[ShonTron]

Taser said the media have been too hasty in pinning the blame for deaths on the stun gun. "The media doesn't understand the technology. Everyone wants us to be guilty and therefore they don't have to look any further than the end of their nose," a spokesperson for Taser told AFP.

Taser founder Tom Smith has strenuously denied that the stun gun was the cause of Dziekanski's death.

"The video of the incident at Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the Taser application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the Taser causing cardiac arrest," Smith has said in a statement.

"His continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death."

The man was tasered somewhere between 2 and 4 times, and then forcably restrained. The outrage was the conduct of the officers more than the use of the tasers. And was that a struggle to resist the police? I can't believe that - what about pain and involuntary reactions?

But what's Taser's reasoning overall, considering the many deaths where it has been used? "Tasers don't kill people, cops kill people?"

 

[Thomistica Ethica]

Sometimes the tax payer argument wilts when the matter is as potentially explosive as this one. As the saying goes - "Do the Right Thing".

Personally, I am a Lefty and I think the Right is over-hyped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dt_toronto_geek View Post
Taser said the media have been too hasty in pinning the blame for deaths on the stun gun. "The media doesn't understand the technology. Everyone wants us to be guilty and therefore they don't have to look any further than the end of their nose," a spokesperson for Taser told AFP.

Taser founder Tom Smith has strenuously denied that the stun gun was the cause of Dziekanski's death.

"The video of the incident at Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the Taser application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the Taser causing cardiac arrest," Smith has said in a statement.

"His continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death."
The man was tasered somewhere between 2 and 4 times, and then forcably restrained. The outrage was the conduct of the officers more than the use of the tasers. And was that a struggle to resist the police? I can't believe that - what about pain and involuntary reactions?

But what's Taser's reasoning overall, considering the many deaths where it has been used? "Tasers don't kill people, cops kill people?"
Yesterday 09:07 PM

I must agree with Tom Smith. The RCMPs, media and public seem keen on blaming the death on Tasers but there is a chance that it was the actions of RCMPs that killed Dziekanski.

 

[theman23]

But what's Taser's reasoning overall, considering the many deaths where it has been used? "Tasers don't kill people, cops kill people?"

It is true though, isn't it? When given the choice between using a traditional fire arm and a taser, I would much prefer the taser being used. But as you've suggested, that is not the issue here. The issue is the completely unnecessary (and apparently improper) use of the taser in this situation. It should only be used as a replacement for lethal force and not as a means for lazy police officers to quickly subdue an upset (but otherwise harmless) person.