jamincan
Active Member
Just a note that neither Kitchener, nor Guelph, are terminal stations.
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Markster
Senior Member
The key point I was trying to drive was the nature of the environment being built around these transfers.
When I said "different class", I am not saying that it's more/less busy. I'm saying they're different in a way that defies direct comparison.
1) Kennedy/Kipling are suburban transit hubs where you arrive on one mode, exit on another, and generally offer nothing beyond that.
2) Kitchener (and Union, and Brampton, etc) are urban centres, where they can serve as a source/destination rather than simply a transfer point.
Hopefully, Kennedy/Kipling will undergo a transition from the former to the latter. The six-points reconfiguration is a start for Kipling, developing the land, and, hopefully, tying the existing stations into the new development.
On the topic of Ottawa, here's hoping that they at least move the bus station to walking distance from an LRT stop... one day.
Very good idea. And yes, the majority of the cost of a DMU service would be rolling stock. The stations would either be existing (in the case of Kitchener and Guelph Stations), or would only need to be very basic stations, like those on the current O-Train line.
Technically Kitchener is, because it's at the end of the Kitchener line. But you're right, I typed that early this morning and I should have used the word station instead.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
Is OC Transporo planning to keep the O-Train running after its light rail lines are in operation? If not, maybe Grand River Transit could get a deal on them.
This project gives me hope that the reduction in service on the North Main Line is temporary. I can't help but sigh when I see predictions from 2009 of ten GO and VIA trains a day per direction serving Kitchener by 2011. Fast forward to 2013 and what will we have? Four.
This project gives me hope that the reduction in service on the North Main Line is temporary. I can't help but sigh when I see predictions from 2009 of ten GO and VIA trains a day per direction serving Kitchener by 2011. Fast forward to 2013 and what will we have? Four.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Ottawa is getting some new Alstom DMUs (Coradia Lint) for the O-Train line, but I read on CPTDB that they are now planning to keep the Talents.
The LRT line that Ottawa is about to start building (construction starting early 2013 I believe) is separate from the O-Train that is currently running. The LRT line will run E-W, while the O-Train runs N-S. Right now upgrading that line to a full LRT is 3rd on the list (after the western LRT extension). So it'll be well into the 2020s before the Talents are out of service.
The vehicles weren't really that expensive though, so I'm sure GRT could get a decent deal on some new ones.
mpd618
Active Member
There's been discussion by both the Region of Waterloo and the City of Guelph about DMU service, so I know it's on their radar.
This year and next, VIA / RailAmerica are having signalling put in on the entire Guelph Subdivision. So that should hopefully allow some additions instead of removal of service.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
So they finally got RailAmerica to play ball. About time.
Both are very good news. Like I said earlier, getting the upgrading done by someone else only makes buying a few vehicles and putting in some really basic stations a more attractive option.
Even if it doesn't do phenomenally well, the total cost would likely be under $50 million. Split 50/50 between Waterloo Region and Wellington County/Guelph (not sure exactly what the setup is there), by the standards of most transit projects, the total cost of implementing this type of plan would be classified as a rounding error.
Markster
Senior Member
I can't see them doing bi-directional service on the north main line without double-tracking, and that would add a lot to the bill. That said, I would love to see an O-Train style service on it. It could connect a lot of N/S corridors with downtown incredibly well.
The O-Train in Ottawa is getting a southen extension right now, and that's the reason they are purchasing new vehicles. It's about time for the extension! It was criminal that the line stopped 800m north of Hunt Club Rd. I believe a strong reason for the extension was population growth in Riverside South, and so they're adding a Park-and-Ride at Leitrim Rd.
Phase 3 of the Ottawa LRT is the full conversion of the Deisel O-Train to electric LRT, with the extension to southern Barrhaven, as was the original N/S LRT plan. I'm not sure if the current design of the Bayview LRT station will allow for interlining direct to downtown.
The O-Train in Ottawa is getting a southen extension right now, and that's the reason they are purchasing new vehicles. It's about time for the extension! It was criminal that the line stopped 800m north of Hunt Club Rd. I believe a strong reason for the extension was population growth in Riverside South, and so they're adding a Park-and-Ride at Leitrim Rd.
Phase 3 of the Ottawa LRT is the full conversion of the Deisel O-Train to electric LRT, with the extension to southern Barrhaven, as was the original N/S LRT plan. I'm not sure if the current design of the Bayview LRT station will allow for interlining direct to downtown.
They could always do like what the O-Train does now: plan the frequencies around where the passing tracks are. They are planning on double tracking a couple more sections of the track so they can increase the frequency, but most of it will still be single track.
Double track the line at Ficher Hallman Station, Kitchener Station, somewhere around Shantz Station Rd, then Guelph Station. Some of those sections already are double tracked.
The O-Train in Ottawa is getting a southen extension right now, and that's the reason they are purchasing new vehicles. It's about time for the extension! It was criminal that the line stopped 800m north of Hunt Club Rd. I believe a strong reason for the extension was population growth in Riverside South, and so they're adding a Park-and-Ride at Leitrim Rd.
Phase 3 of the Ottawa LRT is the full conversion of the Deisel O-Train to electric LRT, with the extension to southern Barrhaven, as was the original N/S LRT plan. I'm not sure if the current design of the Bayview LRT station will allow for interlining direct to downtown.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if the plan is still to go all the way to Barrhaven or not, but yes that electrification is 3rd on the priority list. And the latest drawings I've seen have it being a T intersection at Bayview, which is a shame. It should be an interline station, with the N-S line using the tunnel and ending at a 3 track-2 platform station at Hurdman (centre track for N-S, outside for E-W), so that passengers from the South Transitway can board an empty train.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Wait a minute? Doesn't Metrolinx have plans to double track the corridor all the way to Kitchener? Why are we assuming that these service improvements will only take place on a single track?
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Markster
Senior Member
Double track the whole length is only a prerequisite for Big Move-style all day GO service, which, as far as Metrolinx is concerned, is somewhere in that "15 years and beyond" horizon.
The hypothetical discussion we're having is for operating an O-Train style service that runs local in Kitchener, and intercity to Guelph. Presumably launching sometime sooner than 15 years from now. Our communal assumption is that this could only happen if it could be done on the cheap, which includes working with what we've got.
The hypothetical discussion we're having is for operating an O-Train style service that runs local in Kitchener, and intercity to Guelph. Presumably launching sometime sooner than 15 years from now. Our communal assumption is that this could only happen if it could be done on the cheap, which includes working with what we've got.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
^Thanks. So why did Metrolinx invest in north Georgetown improvements like widening the bridge over the Credit river so soon? Sorry, it's not that I'm questioning you, I just really have not been following improvements to this part of the corridor.
BMO
Senior Member
I'm not sure if the plan is still to go all the way to Barrhaven or not, but yes that electrification is 3rd on the priority list. And the latest drawings I've seen have it being a T intersection at Bayview, which is a shame. It should be an interline station, with the N-S line using the tunnel and ending at a 3 track-2 platform station at Hurdman (centre track for N-S, outside for E-W), so that passengers from the South Transitway can board an empty train.[/QUOTE]
I believe they plan to extend the LRT line north to Gatineau across the river with the N-S LRT line, hence no interlining at Bayview.