[Catenary]

P3/DBFOM. I don't understand what it means really, but I believe the gist is that the Region of Waterloo says to a company "Here is money" and the company goes "Ok, here is train." and said company (consortium) is responsible to make sure it opens on time, operates correctly, etc. Is that kind of right?

Public - Private - Partnership (P3), Design, Build, Finance, Operate, Maintain (DBFOM).

In a traditional contract, the government manages the individual aspects of the project. They design it in house, or contract out parts or all of the engineering and architecture. The construction is then tendered, either all together or in pieces. The cash comes from the taxpayer, who is liable for any cost overruns outside of the narrow scope of the individual contracts. Operations and maintenance are handled in house, or contracted out to a third party (like Bombardier or similar). The TYSSE is an example of the traditional model.

In a P3, the parameters vary, but the bulk of the project is run by the consortium. They are responsible for designing the system to meet the specs set by the government, but because they are also responsible for maintenance and financing, they have a vested interest in designing the system to last for the length of their contract. This model is supposed to bring the best parts of the private sector to public projects. Costs tend to run a bit higher than government run projects, but there is a much lower chance of cost overruns, which are all too common in government work.

There are certainly pros and cons to both models. Consortiums tend to get things done, but they can also value engineer the projects pretty harshly.

 

[Steve X]

^Basically. The consortium is financially responsible for any cost overruns or delays (penalties), so you can bet they will be taking advantage of this warm weather.

Overruns that they can account for. If mother nature decides to snow for 6 months follow by major flooding, the consortium is not on the hook.

 

[Duck]

Thanks for the Coles notes - that really was an excellent synopsis and helps me understand it better. I never really had a grasp on this aspect of the project.

 

[ottbike]

P3s are pretty much the way of the future for transit projects. If anything, the Spadina Subway Extension into Vaughan (over 400m overbudget) was the last nail in the coffin for projects fully managed by the public sector, in this case, the TTC.

 

[Duck]

First of the two domes got covered today:

 

[ottbike]

Sorry, what exactly are these domes for? (I'm only just learning more bits and pieces about the project)

 

[Megaton327]

Sorry, what exactly are these domes for? (I'm only just learning more bits and pieces about the project)

To allow work to progress on the King and Victoria rail/road grade separation during cold/inclement weather in the coming months.

 

[44 North]

Shit, I didn't think it'd be that big...looks like a European train station. I was expecting a few two-by-fours and a tarp.

 

[P0per]

Shit, I didn't think it'd be that big...looks like a European train station. I was expecting a few two-by-fours and a tarp.

Yeah, it's seriously bigger than I thought it would be, as well.

Untitled by ION Construction, on Flickr

There's a bit of perspective at play here, but the MP40PH locomotive is just a bit further back from the second, smaller "dome".

 

[ottbike]

Yeah that's why I was asking. Seems ridiculously big for just a seasonal cover...

 

[Duck]

The scope of what it's covering is ridiculously big. It's for both temperature control (for the curing concrete within) as much as it is for keeping snow and rain out of the site. Without it, construction couldn't have resumed here until early summer.

 

[crs1026]

I have wondered if we need those over the key interlockings on the GO lines..... as an added line of defense against snow and ice in switch machines. Wonder what it would cost and whether it would make the switch heaters more efficient.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Yeah that's why I was asking. Seems ridiculously big for just a seasonal cover...

Just speculating, but I wonder if the need for cranes to work inside them to place forms etc was the reason for their being so lofty.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

I have wondered if we need those over the key interlockings on the GO lines..... as an added line of defense against snow and ice in switch machines. Wonder what it would cost and whether it would make the switch heaters more efficient.

- Paul

Wouldn't help for the ice chunks falling off of equipment, which seems to be the biggest cause of jammed switches.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[jcam]

P3s are pretty much the way of the future for transit projects. If anything, the Spadina Subway Extension into Vaughan (over 400m overbudget) was the last nail in the coffin for projects fully managed by the public sector, in this case, the TTC.

The term P3 is a broad term but is usually used in the context of DBFOM or DBFM. You'll never get a DBFOM on a transit line in this City (O for Operations). Crosstown is a DBFM, with TTC being 'contracted' the O.

When we're talking extensions, like TYSSE or SSE, you might even be hard pressed to add in the M...i.e. TTC maintaining the existing line to Kennedy and then a consortium maintaining the line from there on. It's doable, but I imagine unions might have issues.

Realistically, I'd imagine that your next extension might be a DBF...it'll be a change because the TTC will have to loosen its grip on design, but the F of finance means a bank will be in there making sure that the consortium isn't letting the schedule slip.

Any contracting strategy can work if the project ecosystem is aligned to it. The key is to transfer risk to the contractor, and not meddle too much that you're taking risk back.