[UD2]

You would be 100 % correct if the roads are thoroughfares. But these Ring roads are used heavily by local residents, which is why making them one way would be even more ineffecitive.

one way streets would force residents to drive past their homes, find a way to cross yonge, and then drive down on the opposite ring road to reach their destination. That's artificially increasing road use and travel time.

 

[ssiguy2]

There is no such thing as a "bad" streetscape improvement but it makes you question the city's priorities when they improve the suburban part of the street but the downtown section is left to rot.

 

[11th]

That will force people living on yonge street to cross yonge everyday depending on which direction they travel. Could create problems.

They wouldn't have to do so, unless we are speaking of closing off Yonge completely. Yonge would still have two lanes in each direction even with the lanes installed as per suggestions.

Wonder if a compromise to move the street parking from Yonge off to the ring roads can work.
Instead of two-lanes each direction (2+2), make it 3+1. Three lanes northbound on Doris, and three lanes southbound on Beecroft. The third lane (cloest to curb) will function just like the curb lanes on Yonge currently - no parking during rush, parking allowed all other times (pay-parking during business hours).

 

[salsa]

There is no such thing as a "bad" streetscape improvement but it makes you question the city's priorities when they improve the suburban part of the street but the downtown section is left to rot.

I guess you're unaware that downtown Yonge is also undergoing an environmental assessment.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...etscape-improvements.7994/page-2#post-1132857

 

[salsa]

I'd love to see the proposed cycle tracks on Yonge, but saying stuff like this doesn't help the cause. It just cements the stereotype that cyclists are smug and selfish.

I agree, and I don't typically like to use these kinds of arguments. My comment was in response to some utterly ignorant posts by burnt creek, which thankfully have been thoroughly demolished by several members. He still hasn't replied yet but hopefully we won't be hearing from him anymore in this thread.

Can you drive from Bayview to Yonge in 30 seconds? Cause that's how long it takes to bike from Doris or Beecroft to Yonge.

Yonge St goes from Steeles to the lake. Beecroft and Doris only goes between Finch and Sheppard Ave. Beyond this area, cyclists have no other alternatives to Yonge if they want to go further north or south to other neighbourhoods, which is why it's problematic when people suggest that cycling infrastructure should avoid main roads. It's the same like when councillor Holyday opposed the Bloor bike lane because Harbord St is a parallel alternative, which ignores the fact that Bloor-Danforth is more ideal for a bike route since runs across the whole city unlike other streets.

 

[amnesiajune]

Beyond this area, cyclists have no other alternatives to Yonge if they want to go further north or south to other neighbourhoods, which is why it's problematic when people suggest that cycling infrastructure should avoid main roads.

I don't think it's unreasonable to avoid main roads when it's feasible to do so. If you look at downtown, it's a lot better to build separated bike lanes on Sherbourne and St. George than on Jarvis, Yonge and Spadina. Same with Richmond and Adelaide vs. Queen/King. That seems to be what other cities have done too - Montreal didn't build their main bike lanes on Sherbrooke, they built them on a parallel road a block away.

 

[salsa]

I don't think it's unreasonable to avoid main roads when it's feasible to do so. If you look at downtown, it's a lot better to build separated bike lanes on Sherbourne and St. George than on Jarvis, Yonge and Spadina. Same with Richmond and Adelaide vs. Queen/King. That seems to be what other cities have done too - Montreal didn't build their main bike lanes on Sherbrooke, they built them on a parallel road a block away.

I agree that main roads can be avoided where it makes sense. But at the same time the city also needs cycling routes that go straight across the whole city. Streets like Yonge, Bloor-Danforth and Eglinton have been identified as ideal for serving that purpose.

 

[ssiguy2]

Yonge downtown should NEVER have any bike-lanes. They will take away from the sidewalks and the pedestrian traffic is so high that you are asking for trouble.

I actually was aware of the Environmental Review for Yonge but that means little until they put the shovels in the ground. EA's have become politicians best friend and urbanist's worse nightmares. They allow endess EAs on projects that will last past the election which means they can claim to be "looking into the issue and waiting for the EA" but at the same time not have to invest a nickel.

EAs do far more harm than good when it comes to small city projects. For politicians, they are the 21st century rendition of a Royal Commission.

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

Yonge downtown should NEVER have any bike-lanes. They will take away from the sidewalks and the pedestrian traffic is so high that you are asking for trouble.

I'm editing my post after thinking more on this.

I think every form of transit should be accommodated, but the safety and comfort of pedestrians should be the priority. I don't know how best to accomplish this for Downtown Yonge.

 

[junctionist]

Narrow the roadway to two lanes and use the extra space for sidewalks and bike lanes. It would probably be enough.

 

[ssiguy2]

No, reduce the cars lanes from 2 to 4 widen the sidewalks the full amount and ban bike lanes along Yonge. There are a myriad of different bicycle lanes and wide enough streets they can take thru the core so they can live without Yonge.

This is what even bike loving Vancouver did with the Granville Mall. very wide sidewalks but absolutely no bike lanes. They put the bike lanes in each direction on the next parallel streets.

The bikes can still use Yonge ut under no circumstance should they have a separate bike lane as it will east into the sidewalks and with such a heavy pedestrian street these are accidents waiting to happen.

 

[junctionist]

I don't see a lot of accidents happening at the moment between pedestrians and cyclists. Bikes aren't any more dangerous than cars. What evidence is there to suggest that it would be a problem?

 

[ssiguy2]

Bicyclists naturally bike faster when using bike lanes/ Remember that a 2 bike lanes {one in each direction} is the equivalent space of one car lane. That means all the rejuvenation of Yonge would only mean both sidewalks getting expanded by half the width of a car lane.........hardly seems worth it.

That small amount of width will not create the kind of patios and pedestrian space that they are trying to get in the first place. By no bike lanes that's an extra meter and half both sidewalks get for patios, terraces, food carts, musicians, and street performers. there is a time and place for everything and Yonge is no place for bike lanes.

 

[lead82]

Let's stay focused on Yonge in North York. Downtown is a separate topic. As for the ring roads, the southbound direction of Beecroft works ok until you get past Sheppard. It would help if Beecroft went two blocks further south and met Yonge at Avondale.

Poyntz and Yonge is a terrible intersection, with Anndale drive and crazy merge of W to S traffic from Anndale merging from the E to S traffic from Poyntz. People can't seem to turn into their proper lanes and it slows things down a lot.

Doris should absolutely be extended south to meet with Avondale. That has been in the plans for decades and yet nothing gets done. The problem is that Doris doesn't work as a ring road. Drivers can't easily get from there to the 401. Southbound it requires turning right on Sheppard and left on Yonge and then another left onto 401. That can take 20 mins in rush hour. Similarly going north, there is no easy way to get from 401 to Doris without using Yonge and Sheppard.

I suggested one ways to improve the flow of traffic. Not sure why it's suggested to be bad for pedestrians. Keep the speed limits the same. Most people walk on Yonge as that's where all the shops and services are. If access to properties is an issue then the ring roads can be turned into 3+1, with Beecroft having 3 lanes southbound and Doris having 3 lanes northbound. What would be even better was if Avondale connected with Willowdale and allowed traffic to go up it all the way to Steeles.

I would also hope they extend the median from Sheppard to Avondale. It's high time to block left turns at Johnson and Bogert. People can use Avondale and Beecroft to access properties. Similarly with Glendora. It's often I see drivers making those left turns and blocking traffic while waiting for someone to let them in.

Ultimately with any change, I doubt it will improve things much. There is simply too much latent demand and more buildings going up that would take up any new limited capacity that is added.

The one thing the city could do help immediately is to fix the signal timings. Many years ago one could drive from 401 to Finch and maybe hit 1 red while going north outside of rush hours. Now Sheppard and Greenview seem to have the opposite light all the time and other streets north of Sheppard create red light bottlenecks. We need a green wave to let N/S traffic got through.

 

[junctionist]

Bicyclists naturally bike faster when using bike lanes/ Remember that a 2 bike lanes {one in each direction} is the equivalent space of one car lane. That means all the rejuvenation of Yonge would only mean both sidewalks getting expanded by half the width of a car lane.........hardly seems worth it.

That small amount of width will not create the kind of patios and pedestrian space that they are trying to get in the first place. By no bike lanes that's an extra meter and half both sidewalks get for patios, terraces, food carts, musicians, and street performers. there is a time and place for everything and Yonge is no place for bike lanes.

It's doubtful that the space that the bike lanes require would allow for patios and food carts because of the sheer number of pedestrians on Yonge Street in the first place. Yonge is a good corridor for cycling to the waterfront because there are no ramps onto the Gardiner directly from Yonge Street. It already has bike lanes south of Front Street.