Speaking of music and Yonge Street Downtown, there is Massey Hall. Before Roy Thomson Hall was completed, the Toronto Symphony Orchestra played there. Note that the Toronto Symphony Orchestra does not exclusively play classical music (they also play orchestral pop music as well).
Music is every bit as good today as it ever was. Where the difference is, and where people often get mixed-up is with commercial radio and how little quality stuff is played there. Sometimes, I can't even keep up with how much mindblowing stuff is being put out, right in our own city.
Thanks, Fresh. I can at least better understand your stance now. But I have to say that analogue is over-the-top romantized - in certain quarters there's an enthusiasm for the mystique of it that verges on rabid fetishism. The revered holy grail of sonic qualities. Whereas I see it as different eras offering different strengths, different trade-offs... alas, a discussion of music does't belong in here and I fear I've overstayed my welcome in dragging it onward in this thread. Cheers.
Was mainstream music really any better though? For all the good music in the 70s, the Billboard charts from the era were filled with music that wasn't exactly intellectually stimulating. And the 80s were dominated by bubble gum pop and self indulgent hair bands. I'll take what came after any day.
I just remember it being a gay bar at one time or another and being told by a friend of mine that use too bounce at the works. When it was a straight bar they use to play records and we would shoot pool...shit even enjoy a joint from time to time in bathroom...Times have changed! lol.....Sorry forgot to attach the quote from celeste!
But I have to say that analogue is over-the-top romantized - in certain quarters there's an enthusiasm for the mystique of it that verges on rabid fetishism. The revered holy grail of sonic qualities.
But since when are romance and fetishism considered bad things in terms of music? But I wasn't speaking of it in those terms (moot point anyway as the analogue vs digital argument didn't exist then). I'm saying that convenience is a double edged sword. In 1977, you invested more into listening to music...it wasn't the half-hearted event it is nowadays. There were rituals involved...you tended to be paying attention to it more carefully.
Well, the simple difference is that mainstream consisted of both huge talent as well as the silly crap. The Biebers & Gaga's of the day existed then too...the only difference was that they didn't dominate the way it does now. "Talent" and "mainstream" were somewhat synonymous with each other.
People were pushing the limits of music more back them...that's why you had so many genres of music competing at one time. But even the Billboard 100 (not a great indicator) is a complete mixup of all kinds of music. 1977 was a pretty big year for some pretty big albums and singles (things that can't be topped by Arcade Fire ha ha ha).
I just remember it being a gay bar at one time or another and being told by a friend of mine that use too bounce at the works.
The gay bar above Gasworks was Cornelius. Has anybody already mentioned the hugely popular gay dance club opened the same time as Studio 54 in NYC. It was called Stages, and it was where the Sobeys is now, at 530 Yonge. Before my time, but sounds like a lot of fun. The gay scene seemed to move to Church street in the mid 80's leaving Yonge just a little poorer for it.
You may have a sophisticated appreciation of pop music in the 1970s, but you're still taking the cliche "everything sucks nowadays" view of music that older people tend to have. Indie music like Arcade Fire and Broken Social Scene opened new vistas for music in the past 10 years. The music has richer textures and more varied sounds with a variety of instruments that once seemed relegated to classical music concert halls. It seems misguided to say that this music is worse than the stuff of the 1970s.
So what if it isn't mainstream? That just reflects the state of media today where people are no longer entirely dependent on big record labels, corporate radio, TV and newspapers for their music and information like they were in the 1970s. They get independent and individualized content from millions of websites and their social media feed. The good stuff is no longer is as likely to end up on the radio because the radio doesn't matter that much anymore to people.
Hip hop has become a sophisticated genre of music in its composition, lyrics and production. Slang is good because it shows people taking risks and trying new things with language. That's how a language evolves. We have many phrases and expressions like "cool" that originated in black slang from the early jazz and blues scenes. Hip hop certainly won't harm our language.
I just remember it being a gay bar at one time or another and being told by a friend of mine that use too bounce at the works. When it was a straight bar they use to play records and we would shoot pool...shit even enjoy a joint from time to time in bathroom...Times have changed! lol.....Sorry forgot to attach the quote from celeste!
That's okay. I have plans to go and see it for myself if time permits. Where the Gasworks and the Domino Klub used to be. I just have a feeling that the landlords who own both of those buildings let it get into a state of disrepair so they could sell the shells to the highest bidder.
For me my interest and appreciation is for the archetecture of the old buildings rather than 1970s music.
I just remember it being a gay bar at one time or another and being told by a friend of mine that use too bounce at the works. When it was a straight bar they use to play records and we would shoot pool...shit even enjoy a joint from time to time in bathroom...Times have changed! lol.....Sorry forgot to attach the quote from celeste!
I'm quite sure downstairs of Gasworks was never a gay club, it was upstairs around maybe '83 - '85'ish but it didn't last long, maybe a year or two at most. I was in a few times, it was never very busy so we always moved on after a drink and with a rather rough crowd downstairs it wasn't very conducive to entering and exiting safely, at least that's how it felt.
I can't date that photo, but I'd guess late 70's or early 80's, after most of the neon was stripped away - which I remember, so that's how I arrive at the rough date.
But that's not what I'm saying. I like "now" just fine. But I'm not naive enough to forget that we live in a throwaway culture...and music in general reflects that (along with ever other consumer product).
Indie music like Arcade Fire and Broken Social Scene opened new vistas for music in the past 10 years. The music has richer textures and more varied sounds with a variety of instruments that once seemed relegated to classical music concert halls. It seems misguided to say that this music is worse than the stuff of the 1970s.
Ok...first of all, I happen to like both those bands, and never said they were worse than anything. Secondly, I see them as retro bands, and really not doing anything new at all. Doesn't mean they don't have a good sound. And especially when it comes to the "variety of instruments"....that's quite hilarious. From Miles Davis to metal, there's little that wasn't already experimented with in the 70's (and by far more talented musicians).
Hip hop has become a sophisticated genre of music in its composition, lyrics and production.
Sure, if being an illiterate gangster thug is what passes for "sophisticated". I've heard some french rap/hip hop that I can almost stomach, but I think that was because it actually had good music accompanying it. But your basic NA popular rap and hip hop music is low brow pap, gobbled up by the brainless masses.
Our music is still the same quality. AF and BSS are hardly retro. Their sound may occasionally recall old rock tropes, but it's unique to our time. A hip hop song like Killer Mike's "Untitled" is a good song by any standard--well written and performed, with an excellent bassline and percussion in the production. An album like Kendrick Lamar's good kid, maad city is like a documentary of what it was like to grow up in Compton for a poor black youth--the kind of historical record that no one else may have ever made. Of course, it's entertaining to listen to and a good creative work the likes of which didn't exist in the 1970s.
There's no way hip hop has harmed the English language. Hip hop artists have introduced a wealth of metaphors, words and phrases that hardly seem worse than anything that preceded hip hop. They experiment with language, willing to play with pronunciation, grammar and all aspects of language. When they come up with something that's simple and logical like replacing a phrase with a single word, it becomes likely to be accepted socially because it makes things easier.
If we had this conversation a century ago, then there would be people who would keep saying that Mozart and Beethoven are better than the trash composed by Debussy and Stravinsky.
While I don't buy into the theory that music was higher quality in the 60s and 70s than it is now, I do recognize that it was changing at a much faster rate. But of course it was, that was when people born in the post-war boom were coming of age. Pop culture as we know it was practically invented in that era. It was part of a complete transformation of western society, part of which was the creation of the disposable, consumer oriented economy (sure that got its start in the 20s but it really got rolling in the 50s). People weren't more creative back then, they were just responding to what was happening around them. The world is a far more stable place now and that's reflected in the pop culture and the music. Just because musicians now aren’t inventing new genres every six months that doesn’t mean their music isn’t just as good.
It’s worth noting that today’s disposable pop music landscape is the product of people from the era freshcutgrass romanticizes.
But since when are romance and fetishism considered bad things in terms of music? But I wasn't speaking of it in those terms (moot point anyway as the analogue vs digital argument didn't exist then). I'm saying that convenience is a double edged sword. In 1977, you invested more into listening to music...it wasn't the half-hearted event it is nowadays. There were rituals involved...you tended to be paying attention to it more carefully.
Interesting. You talk about how finding music was something you had to invest more into, it wasn’t convenient. But if your premise is true that far less of the good music is mainstream now, then finding it isn’t convenient at all. You still have to invest effort into it and it’s still a ritual. It may not be the way you remember it, but it’s still there.
Sure, if being an illiterate gangster thug is what passes for "sophisticated". I've heard some french rap/hip hop that I can almost stomach, but I think that was because it actually had good music accompanying it. But your basic NA popular rap and hip hop music is low brow pap, gobbled up by the brainless masses.
You know, you’re making it easier to yell “angry old man†with every post. Lol. Have you ever said “rap music, more like crap music†to someone? I’m not into hip hop myself but I can appreciate that there's some amazing talent in the genre.
