Celeste
New Member
Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of Goddo? The Guess Who? Triumph? Neil Young? Those are the bands and artists that put Canada on the map.
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Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of Goddo? The Guess Who? Triumph? Neil Young? Those are the bands and artists that put Canada on the map.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
Reflektor sounds like garden variety 80's synth-pop. And I like it. It's just that I doubt it will go down in history as an essential musical shift.
I can only appreciate talent if I see any. I can say that about opera...but I can't about hip hop. It's the least tolerable of all musical genres, and I'm not alone in that opinion. There's a reason that the idiots who think walking around with their pants falling down is cool, are also the ones who wouldn't listen to anything else. There's a connection there dontcha think!!!!!!
Well, start prying into details, and you just might start buying into it a little. God knows it isn't essential for either being great or popular, but musicianship has certainly had a big influence on what is considered great music. Music isn't just auto-tuned vocals and dancing. Occasionally an instrument needs to be picked up and played.
When we start looking at the greatest musicians of all time, very few on that list are from the last 10-20 years. There are some good singers as vocals are still taken seriously (if not consisting of the same auto-tuned R&B sound like they are trying to win "Nobody has talent, X Factor, Pop Idol, American Idol).
Except that's not what I said. Finding good music was incredibly easy in 1977. The contemporary music of 1977 and of today is popular. It just happens that the contemporary music of 1977 turned out to be classic great music far more often. The inconvenient part was in playing your music. You had to go to the record store and buy it. You had to carefully take it out of the sleeve and put it on the turntable, probably running the record brush over it first. You cued it up and dropped the needle. You had to turn it over to listen the the other side. This was part of the ritual of listening to music.
I see people on the streetcar listening to their ipods and reading at the same time. I'm pretty sure it should be legal for me to hurt that person.
Forgotten
Active Member
They probably have better taste in music and literature than you do.
junctionist
Senior Member
They're as good or better than all of those artists. Thanks to AF and other great contemporary musicians, Canada is staying on the map.
Celeste
New Member
junctionist
Senior Member
Rush also deserves a mention with the cream of the crop. Between Neil Young and AF, the spectrum of Canadian talent has been impressive over the past decades. Music is something Canada does really well.
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
1977 tease....
Arguably best reggae album of all time....Exodus (Bob Marley & the Wailers)
Arguably best jazz-rock album of all time....Aja (Steely Dan)
Arguably best punk album of all time...Never Mind the Bollocks (Sex Pistols)
Arguably best sports anthems of all time... We Will Rock You /We are the Champions (Queen)
Local sh*t from 1977...
Farewell to Kings (Rush)
Black Noise (FM)
Rock and Roll Machine (Triumph)
Diodes (The Diodes)
High Class in Borrowed Shoes (Max Webster)
Hope (Klaatu...or was it the Beatles?)
Circles in the Stream (Bruce Cockburn)
Goddo (Goddo)
Ridin' High (Moxy)
Makin' Magic (Pat Travers)
Putting It Straight (Pat Travers)
Screamin Fist (Viletones)
CN Tower (The Poles)
*Toronto had an epic punk scene in 1977
Show Case Volume 3 (Jackie Mittoo)
Hot Blood (Jackie Mittoo)
*Toronto also had an epic reggae scene in 1977
Oscar Peterson Jam – Montreux '77 (Oscar Peterson) *Grammy Winner!!!
The set from the "secret" Stones concert at the Elmo is released on Love You Live (April Wine opened for them and also released their live set as well)
Arguably best reggae album of all time....Exodus (Bob Marley & the Wailers)
Arguably best jazz-rock album of all time....Aja (Steely Dan)
Arguably best punk album of all time...Never Mind the Bollocks (Sex Pistols)
Arguably best sports anthems of all time... We Will Rock You /We are the Champions (Queen)
Local sh*t from 1977...
Farewell to Kings (Rush)
Black Noise (FM)
Rock and Roll Machine (Triumph)
Diodes (The Diodes)
High Class in Borrowed Shoes (Max Webster)
Hope (Klaatu...or was it the Beatles?)
Circles in the Stream (Bruce Cockburn)
Goddo (Goddo)
Ridin' High (Moxy)
Makin' Magic (Pat Travers)
Putting It Straight (Pat Travers)
Screamin Fist (Viletones)
CN Tower (The Poles)
*Toronto had an epic punk scene in 1977
Show Case Volume 3 (Jackie Mittoo)
Hot Blood (Jackie Mittoo)
*Toronto also had an epic reggae scene in 1977
Oscar Peterson Jam – Montreux '77 (Oscar Peterson) *Grammy Winner!!!
The set from the "secret" Stones concert at the Elmo is released on Love You Live (April Wine opened for them and also released their live set as well)
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vking
New Member
I know downstairs never was! It was upstairs. And 83ish sounds about right.I'm quite sure downstairs of Gasworks was never a gay club, it was upstairs around maybe '83 - '85'ish but it didn't last long, maybe a year or two at most. I was in a few times, it was never very busy so we always moved on after a drink and with a rather rough crowd downstairs it wasn't very conducive to entering and exiting safely, at least that's how it felt.
I can't date that photo, but I'd guess late 70's or early 80's, after most of the neon was stripped away - which I remember, so that's how I arrive at the rough date.
Edit: I'm thinking early 80's now.
vking
New Member
Agreed!And not to mention Lee Aaron,Rush,Helix,Coney Hatch,Santers Band, Max Webster,FM,Teenage Head! And who is Arcade fire?
MisterF
Senior Member
You don't want to be perceived as an angry old man but you sure aren't doing yourself any favours with rants like this! Do you have anything to say about the music or are you just mad at baggy pants?
You keep going on about musicianship. Look, music where musicians play their own instruments is all I listen to. There's a huge amount of it out there and a lot of it's really good. You just need to open your eyes.
This whole conversation keeps reminding me of the Simpsons episode where they go to Hullabalooza.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqfXlIq6RE
freshcutgrass
Senior Member
I've been saying it...you just don't want to listen (obviously, as insulting me avoids the fact that it doesn't prove your point)
Because it's a far more important contributing factor to why I am correct than you want to admit.
Ok...let's pretend I've been away for 20 years and haven't heard anything new (rolls eyes). If what you are saying is true, then you should have no problem enlightening me with this supposed huge list of virtuoso mainstream musicians that is on par with 70's musicians then.
More 1977 teasers...
Acts debuting in 1977...
Eddie Money - S/T
Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks
Peter Gabriel - S/T
Jam - In The City
Chic - S/T
Talking Heads - Talking Heads 77
Dennis Wilson - Pacific Ocean Blue
Clash - S/T
Motorhead - S/T
Stranglers - Rattus Norvegicus
Cheap Trick - S/T
Boomtown Rats - S/T
Meat Loaf - Bat Out Of Hell
Wire - Pink Flag
Iggy Pop - The Idiot <1st solo album>
Television - Marquee Moon
Bob Welch - French Kiss
Chic - S/T
Evelyn "Champagne" King - Smooth Talk
Village People - S/T
Ultravox - Ultravox!
Foreigner - S/T
Damned - Damned, Damned, Damned
Suicide - S/T
George Thorogood & The Destroyers - S/T
David Cloverdale - Whitesnake
Rick Danko - S/T
Steve Winwood - S/T
38 Special - S/T
Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True
Björk - S/T
Number of albums from 1977 in the top ten highest selling albums of all time?
....3
Rumours
Saturday Night Fever
Bat Out Of Hell
ehlow
Senior Member
freshcutgrass can keep complaining about "kids these days and their gangster thug rap music", but at the end of the day, hip hop one of the most important parts of today's culture, and will continue to evolve and dominate in the future.
It is especially an important part of Toronto's culture for Toronto's under-30 population. To me, hip hop is the soundtrack of Toronto. In hip hop, they sample all other genres of music (stealing from it, critics might say), so you end up with a rich mosaic of sounds from different eras such as jazz, rock, blues, funk, techno. To me this evokes Toronto's gritty, haphazard, heterogeneous mix of architectural styles from various eras. It also evokes the multicultural ethnic make-up of the younger generation in Toronto.
Everyone will believe that the music they listened to when they were teenagers or in their 20's is "the best music". In the 50's, the older generation could not stand early rock & roll music, similar to freshcutgrass now. When I get older, I'm sure I will hate whatever the future youth generation comes up with.
Anyways at the end of the day, you can't really argue about what music people enjoy. I like rap music, I've grown up listening to rap, and that won't change. Others who grew up before hip hop was invented in NYC in the 80's will never enjoy it.
It is especially an important part of Toronto's culture for Toronto's under-30 population. To me, hip hop is the soundtrack of Toronto. In hip hop, they sample all other genres of music (stealing from it, critics might say), so you end up with a rich mosaic of sounds from different eras such as jazz, rock, blues, funk, techno. To me this evokes Toronto's gritty, haphazard, heterogeneous mix of architectural styles from various eras. It also evokes the multicultural ethnic make-up of the younger generation in Toronto.
Everyone will believe that the music they listened to when they were teenagers or in their 20's is "the best music". In the 50's, the older generation could not stand early rock & roll music, similar to freshcutgrass now. When I get older, I'm sure I will hate whatever the future youth generation comes up with.
Anyways at the end of the day, you can't really argue about what music people enjoy. I like rap music, I've grown up listening to rap, and that won't change. Others who grew up before hip hop was invented in NYC in the 80's will never enjoy it.
Lenser
Senior Member
Since it appears that this derailment of a thread has legs and no one seems to be complaining, I'll wade back into the discussion.
It is essentially an unwinnable argument. I have an old friend who likes to claim the same thing - that truly great music more or less dried up after the seventies. Absurd. But I think he yearns for the simplicity and freshness of his youth and projects that yearning onto a contemporary canvas, finding the comparison a poor one. There is a bittersweetness to his argument which is inextricably tied up with his personality and his struggles to live up to his own ideals. It's pointless to argue about this kind of thing for any length of time - although it must also be said that it's always good to be reminded of great music.
There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof. You like what you like, finding reasons to support that. You also find reasons to disparage the stuff you don't care for. Old story.
Finally, I wanted to add that what the best hiphop does, while wonderfully creative, is essentially neither new nor terribly innovative. All culture both unconsciously references and selectively draws from what went before it. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum; it is constantly refreshing itself at the well of creativity.
It is essentially an unwinnable argument. I have an old friend who likes to claim the same thing - that truly great music more or less dried up after the seventies. Absurd. But I think he yearns for the simplicity and freshness of his youth and projects that yearning onto a contemporary canvas, finding the comparison a poor one. There is a bittersweetness to his argument which is inextricably tied up with his personality and his struggles to live up to his own ideals. It's pointless to argue about this kind of thing for any length of time - although it must also be said that it's always good to be reminded of great music.
There is no accounting for taste, or lack thereof. You like what you like, finding reasons to support that. You also find reasons to disparage the stuff you don't care for. Old story.
Finally, I wanted to add that what the best hiphop does, while wonderfully creative, is essentially neither new nor terribly innovative. All culture both unconsciously references and selectively draws from what went before it. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum; it is constantly refreshing itself at the well of creativity.
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ehlow
Senior Member
I agree that it's pointless to argue about people's taste in music.
Although, I did want to point out that as the generation raised on hip hop gets older, hip hop becomes more and more mainstream and accepted, just as older genres of music have. Even the president of America listens to hip hop these days.
Also, hip hop does actually relate to urban development in Toronto in a way, by shaping cultural perceptions of what is authentic, cool, and desirable. For example, grittiness is now considered authentic and cool. Things like dirty alley's filled with graffiti used to be undesirable, but now, people are looking for authenticity and character when looking for the next neighbourhoods to gentrify. Neighbourhoods that were once cheap and undesirable downtown are now expensive. Graffiti is now considered art, and good artistic graffiti can actually raise property values. Another example is loft-style conversions, whether condo or office, with exposed brick and unfinished ceilings.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...eighbourhoods-are-newly-cool/article16860102/
Of course, this whole "gritty is cool" aesthetic has its roots in NYC and its loft conversions & gentrifications, which coincided with hip hop music growing and spreading from that city as well. Hip hop itself was often associated with low-income and crime. However, as young upper and middle class professionals who are hip hop fans grow up and become the middle-aged, the genre itself is also gentrifying and losing it's edge, as Rock & Roll did, and Jazz before that.
Although, I did want to point out that as the generation raised on hip hop gets older, hip hop becomes more and more mainstream and accepted, just as older genres of music have. Even the president of America listens to hip hop these days.
Also, hip hop does actually relate to urban development in Toronto in a way, by shaping cultural perceptions of what is authentic, cool, and desirable. For example, grittiness is now considered authentic and cool. Things like dirty alley's filled with graffiti used to be undesirable, but now, people are looking for authenticity and character when looking for the next neighbourhoods to gentrify. Neighbourhoods that were once cheap and undesirable downtown are now expensive. Graffiti is now considered art, and good artistic graffiti can actually raise property values. Another example is loft-style conversions, whether condo or office, with exposed brick and unfinished ceilings.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...eighbourhoods-are-newly-cool/article16860102/
Of course, this whole "gritty is cool" aesthetic has its roots in NYC and its loft conversions & gentrifications, which coincided with hip hop music growing and spreading from that city as well. Hip hop itself was often associated with low-income and crime. However, as young upper and middle class professionals who are hip hop fans grow up and become the middle-aged, the genre itself is also gentrifying and losing it's edge, as Rock & Roll did, and Jazz before that.
Lenser
Senior Member
Hip hop has already been here for a couple of generations by now... and I think your argument that hip hop is becoming soft, like rock and jazz before it, is too simplistic and rigidly linear. One form of music does not automatically make way for another, then subside gently into obscurity or obsolescence; great music continually rises to the surface. Its relevance has nothing do to with any categorization or moniker you might aribitrarily assign it.
But then again, it does if you believe it does. The personal taste thing again. Given that, sweeping generalizations about music are often suspect.
As for graffiti, beauty is, as ever, in the eye of the beholder. Not all of it is stunning or "art." Tons of it is just visual pollution - ugly tagging with zero easthetic value. I see lots of vandalized, incoherently blitzed buildings all the time; it's rarer that I see amazing graffiti.
And grit? Grit as 'cool' goes back way before NYC and its loft conversions. Gentrification has been a part of European culture for centuries. It's safe to assume it's been going on across the globe for about as long as we've had cities.
But then again, it does if you believe it does. The personal taste thing again. Given that, sweeping generalizations about music are often suspect.
As for graffiti, beauty is, as ever, in the eye of the beholder. Not all of it is stunning or "art." Tons of it is just visual pollution - ugly tagging with zero easthetic value. I see lots of vandalized, incoherently blitzed buildings all the time; it's rarer that I see amazing graffiti.
And grit? Grit as 'cool' goes back way before NYC and its loft conversions. Gentrification has been a part of European culture for centuries. It's safe to assume it's been going on across the globe for about as long as we've had cities.