[Ansem]

I don't know why they just don't scrap the Finch East portion of the LRT which will screw up one of the few decent bus routes in this city and use that money to extend the subway westward.

The current state of bus ridership does not accurately capture the ridership potential of a subway connection between Yonge and Downsview. Riders who use Finch or Steeles to get to York or access the Spadina subway would flood a Sheppard West link. That kind of ridership is unlikely to be captured in the existing bus ridership on Sheppard West, which as Scarberian pointed out is hardly miniscule.

Very well said...

That's what happened in Montreal and the blue line...
It began with a small ridership which forced the line to close at 11h15pm but people using the buse routes east-west quickly switched to the blue line, increasing the ridership...which surprised the STM who made the train longer and the line closed later.

You can make numbers say whatever you want them to say.

The fact is that Giambrone and Miller are so ANTI-SUBWAY....unbelievable.
The spadina line was forced on them...

 

[Dan416]

To me extending Sheppard West to Downsview is a no-brainer. And by that I mean you'd need people with no brains running the TTC to reject it.

Although to be fair, a Sheppard West extension on its own doesn't matter that much, but coupled with a Sheppard East extension to STC makes a viable Crosstown line.

 

[lead82]

Well that would be optimal, but even on its own, it would add more purpose of the Sheppard line than just a quick express from Yonge to Fairview. At least with the connection at Downsview you have a cross North York line and an added network connection.

 

[leopetr]

I don't know why they just don't scrap the Finch East portion of the LRT which will screw up one of the few decent bus routes in this city and use that money to extend the subway westward.

Money? Is that section even funded? It's only mentioned in the EA as a potential future extension.

 

[leopetr]

The fact is that Giambrone and Miller are so ANTI-SUBWAY....unbelievable

Studies aren't done by heads of agencies. Miller and Giambrone have been doing a terrific of advocating for transit investment and actually getting the ball rolling on transit construction. If we are blaming people, why not blame Harper for not pitching in a third into transit projects? At least a third of MoveOntario 2020 will likely not be constructed because there's no federal funding coming in.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Studies aren't done by heads of agencies. Miller and Giambrone have been doing a terrific of advocating for transit investment and actually getting the ball rolling on transit construction. If we are blaming people, why not blame Harper for not pitching in a third into transit projects? At least a third of MoveOntario 2020 will likely not be constructed because there's no federal funding coming in.

Whoever's in power tells the TTC what to build. In this case, that's Miller and Giambrone, and they're grossly manipulating the numbers so they can live in their pretty little LRT world.

 

[jeffreym]

Money? Is that section even funded? It's only mentioned in the EA as a potential future extension.

The funding came with the announcement. That's where the whole scheme came from, the funding announcement.

 

[Ansem]

Studies aren't done by heads of agencies. Miller and Giambrone have been doing a terrific of advocating for transit investment and actually getting the ball rolling on transit construction. If we are blaming people, why not blame Harper for not pitching in a third into transit projects? At least a third of MoveOntario 2020 will likely not be constructed because there's no federal funding coming in.

In what world do you live in....

They've done an horrible job...

Transit city does NOTHING to solve current transit needs like the Yonge line being overcrowded and North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke being left being in public Transit....

It's 5 in the morning, too drunk to find you a link to all the Transit CIty EA.

Eglinton will most probably be the ONLY RAPID TRANSIT LINE....

How in the world will **GLORIFIED OVERPRICED SLOW STREETCAR*** help the city when they will dumped those extra riders to the Yonge Line who can't even handle the current ridership???? 23 km/h in average???? Are you kidding me? I know bus routes that goes faster than that.


Great JOB?????
NO

Great job would have been this...

1-DRL Eglinton to Eglinton West
2-Bloor-Danforth to Scarborough Centre
3-Finish the SHeppard line from Downsview to STC
4-Eglinton subway...(Call me naive but I guarantee you that the underground portion combined with a DRL WILL INTERCEPT the majority of the riders who usually go to Bloor...Combine with the airport connection....subway will get back on the table very fast...

If the STM (Montreal Metro were off by almost 50% when they estimated the ridership coming from the new stations in Laval, you'll have to forgive me if I have absolutely no faith in the TTC who can't event build a Streetcar route perfectly straight...St.Clair...)

 

[Chuck]

Studies aren't done by heads of agencies. Miller and Giambrone have been doing a terrific of advocating for transit investment and actually getting the ball rolling on transit construction. If we are blaming people, why not blame Harper for not pitching in a third into transit projects? At least a third of MoveOntario 2020 will likely not be constructed because there's no federal funding coming in.

I've said in another thread that Transit City is the single biggest mistake in the TTC's history. It will add zero additional transit capacity into the downtown core for 90% of the city, and dump millions of extra riders onto the existing at capacity subway lines. The $10B cost is already hoarding money away from other worthwhile projects - the province has already refused to fund the Yonge extension because they claim to have provided the GTA with enough transit funding for the time being. Furthermore, once the province sees how even a $10B investment will do nothing to solve the transit problem in the GTA, how likely are they to continue funding more projects? If the Eglinton tunnels are not built to subway standards, that will forever prevent an Eglinton subway from being built. Ditto for the Sheppard tunnels being built east from Don Mills.

No matter how you slice it, Transit City is a $10B white elephant being shoved down our throats by Miller and Giambrone.

 

[waterloowarrior]

If they built Sheppard to Downsview and Consumers rd it makes it more of a viable line (ie less of a stubway) which would hurt the case for Sheppard East LRT

 

[leopetr]

I've said in another thread that Transit City is the single biggest mistake in the TTC's history. It will add zero additional transit capacity into the downtown core for 90% of the city, and dump millions of extra riders onto the existing at capacity subway lines. The $10B cost is already hoarding money away from other worthwhile projects - the province has already refused to fund the Yonge extension because they claim to have provided the GTA with enough transit funding for the time being.

The Yonge extension also provides 0 additional capacity into the core while dumping millions of new riders on the existing at capacity subway lines. You are just playing favourites.

If the Eglinton tunnels are not built to subway standards, that will forever prevent an Eglinton subway from being built.

10 kilometres of underground tunnel with stations that can be expanded to handle very, very long LRT trains is an Eglinton subway.

TTC who can't event build a Streetcar route perfectly straight...St.Clair...)

Those were telephoto photos. St. Clair is perfectly straight, though behind schedule. The principal difficulty with building it was the narrow street width, narrower by at least 4m than Spadina, coupled with overdue utilities work.

 

[Paleo]

Oh, come on people.

You want them to build a subway on a street where the buses run no better than 5 1/2 minutes at rush hours? What's next, a streetcar to your driveway? A bus to your backyard?

How about a little bit of realism.

A full bus is obviously a sign that there is enough demand for subway, or in the case of the TYSSE into Vaughan, mostly empty ones. At least York Region is honest in their ridership projections. (they are very low)

I had a feeling that the TTC did not seriously consider the Sheppard West extension. They did not even think about just boring a tunnel without any stations, but making the tunnel flat near Bathurst and Downsview. Also, they claimed that a new bridge would have to be built over the West Don. Does that TTC not know how to tunnel under a river? Geez, the Don is no St. Lawrence, it's a stream, surely the tunnel boring machine can dive down and go under the river bed. With no stations really needed until just west of Bathurst, there would be plenty of time for the tunnel to come back up closer to the usual shallow tunnel level.

There's only one place that I recall the TTC tunneling a subway under a river and that is the approach to York Mills. Look at what they had to do for that. It's probably why there will never be a mid-block station south of there. Goodbye Bathurst and Senlac. Of course I'm sure we'd have people in here after that blasting the TTC for lack of foresight.

The TTC planners might benefit from taking courses in interactive non-linear dynamics... I would be one of these new riders--I live at Yonge & Sheppard and I work at Sheppard and Allen Rd. Occasionally, I do take a bus, but usually I drive. If Yonge-Sheppard to Downsview subway connection gets built, I will take it! (probably, I will sell our second car). I am sure I am not alone.

Given the low density along most of Sheppard, you probably would be alone. I'm sure people along Finch or Steeles would take the subway too, let's build some under those streets.

Whoever's in power tells the TTC what to build. In this case, that's Miller and Giambrone, and they're grossly manipulating the numbers so they can live in their pretty little LRT world.

How awful. The last time TPTB manipulated numbers we got the Sheppard subway built. At least the LRT lines which are apparently destined for failure will lose less money and thus won't be as a big a failure.

 

[junctionist]

Given the low density along most of Sheppard, you probably would be alone. I'm sure people along Finch or Steeles would take the subway too, let's build some under those streets.

But he lives at Yonge and Sheppard, where the density is high as it along much of Yonge, drawing people to and from that direction. The Spadina line serves a variety of destinations which draw a lot of people. In case of an emergency on one arm of the line in the central or downtown area, the many riders from the north end or who are going to the north end can use the other arm of the line to bypass that section and then quickly transfer back. Now we hear that the TTC could also use a connection for subway maintenance.

How awful. The last time TPTB manipulated numbers we got the Sheppard subway built. At least the LRT lines which are apparently destined for failure will lose less money and thus won't be as a big a failure.

What manipulation? Everyone knew that ridership on Sheppard wouldn't be that high, but certain politicians lobbied hard enough for the transit that would best serve their citizens and offer growth potential. Today ridership is relatively high for a suburban subway line that's only 5.5 kilometres long.

 

[Fresh Start]

I don't know why they just don't scrap the Finch East portion of the LRT which will screw up one of the few decent bus routes in this city and use that money to extend the subway westward.

Scraping the Yonge to Don Mills Stn section only saves $400 million, not much when we're now talking $300 million/km for subways. The real solution is to scrap the Finch LRT in entirity and put an end to these artificial end-destination points. Many commutes don't just magically start or end at the Yonge Line (or Don Mills Stn for that matter) and for crosstown commuters it'd just be faster to travel right across via a F.H.C. busway. No transfer points, no prolonged wait-times for the rapid service. I'm not convinced that someone from Malvern going to say Humber College needs to get there via Sheppard or worse yet SRT + B-D + the 191 bus.

The current state of bus ridership does not accurately capture the ridership potential of a subway connection between Yonge and Downsview. Riders who use Finch or Steeles to get to York or access the Spadina subway would flood a Sheppard West link. That kind of ridership is unlikely to be captured in the existing bus ridership on Sheppard West, which as Scarberian pointed out is hardly miniscule.

The busway would provide a more direct connection between York U, the Yonge Subway and also Seneca College either the Sheppard West subway or FWLRT ever could hope to achieve. Billion dollar subways aren't the solution for everything.

 

[vz64]

...
Given the low density along most of Sheppard, you probably would be alone. I'm sure people along Finch or Steeles would take the subway too, let's build some under those streets.
...

My point was not whether or not Sheppard has sufficient density between Yonge and Downsview (however, Yonge/Sheppard and Bathurst/Sheppard are high-density intersections and Downsview is growing fast). I wanted to point out that this connection will bring new riders (like myself) who are not counted by TTC calculations of potential ridership. After YorkU extension is built, the link would also create a continuous East-West subway connection.