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UD2 said:
1 milllion dollars per bus.

wow... You realize that Chinese companies could make these things at 50% the price tag.
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The Van Hools were similarly priced. I think the quality of the buses speak for themselves. Not only that, but these buses seem to be much more powerful than the TTC buses. Viva buses have impressive acceleration and handling ability, whereas I feel like the TTC buses are traditional "taking up space" buses. I usually can follow a Viva bus in my car comfortably knowing it's going to be going faster than the people driving on the left lane.

I've even been on a Viva bus a few times where the driver passed cars on the left lane. Love it.
 
Protectionism is dumb. American protectionism can hurt New Flyer, Orion, and Nova as well, so I don't see the point of it, especially considering how the GTA economy is reliant on export outside Canada. The Ontario government is just shooting us in the foot.
 
xtremesniper said:
The Van Hools were similarly priced. I think the quality of the buses speak for themselves. Not only that, but these buses seem to be much more powerful than the TTC buses. Viva buses have impressive acceleration and handling ability, whereas I feel like the TTC buses are traditional "taking up space" buses. I usually can follow a Viva bus in my car comfortably knowing it's going to be going faster than the people driving on the left lane.

I've even been on a Viva bus a few times where the driver passed cars on the left lane. Love it.
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While I'm not denying the fact that Viva buses do have good acceleration (and so do many YRT buses too, I know for a fact), your situation of being on a Viva bus where the driver is passing cars has very little if anything to do with "impressive acceleration" and have to do with the bus driver going faster than the speed limit (as many Viva drivers do drive many times around 10-20km over the limit and I have even personally witnessed them going as much as 30-40km over in order to try to maintain their schedule, or just simply finish their run sooner).
 
xtremesniper said:
The Van Hools were similarly priced. I think the quality of the buses speak for themselves. Not only that, but these buses seem to be much more powerful than the TTC buses. Viva buses have impressive acceleration and handling ability, whereas I feel like the TTC buses are traditional "taking up space" buses. I usually can follow a Viva bus in my car comfortably knowing it's going to be going faster than the people driving on the left lane.

I've even been on a Viva bus a few times where the driver passed cars on the left lane. Love it.
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While they do seem fairly fast, I don't get the impression that Viva buses are that much faster than any other new buses. I think that their speed comes from the stop spacing.

I've experienced similar feats on TTC buses as well. For example, on route 196, the bus was behind schedule, so the driver was driving really quickly. I was standing near the front, and the speedometer showed that we were doing 85km/h on Dufferin street (in the bus lane).

As well, I am frequently impressed at the acceleration of Orion 7s. I would like to know what the various bus acceleration ratings are, but it doesn't seem to be something bus makers brag about.
 
So I was driving by a bus terminal today and noticed that the Viva buses now have their "VivaTV" back on,
 
I'm just throwing this out there ...

I ride about 50% TTC 50% YRT (Viva and otherwise).

Does anyone else find YRT bus drives are way more passive ... i.e. less aggressive ... particularly when leaving stops. I don't find this as much on Viva buses but most of the others ... it's as if they don't know they should have right of way ... it's annoying at times!
 
reaperexpress said:
While they do seem fairly fast, I don't get the impression that Viva buses are that much faster than any other new buses. I think that their speed comes from the stop spacing.

I've experienced similar feats on TTC buses as well. For example, on route 196, the bus was behind schedule, so the driver was driving really quickly. I was standing near the front, and the speedometer showed that we were doing 85km/h on Dufferin street (in the bus lane).

As well, I am frequently impressed at the acceleration of Orion 7s. I would like to know what the various bus acceleration ratings are, but it doesn't seem to be something bus makers brag about.
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True, the stop spacing really makes a difference, but I think in most scenarios it either comes down to the bus itself, or the driver, or both... I have had some Viva drivers that drive at about half the speed limit on Highway 7 for whatever reason (they aren't ahead of schedule at all, in fact... they usually have buses trailing them) while on the other hand I would have ones that would be going quick.. Honestly sometimes I would get home in a record 40 minutes even though my usual trip time is 1 hour and 15 minutes. But in any case, I think if you set up a drag race between the TTC buses and the Viva buses, the Viva would win. I just feel a different kind of acceleration than I do on the TTCs... I think the TTC buses are just heavier by nature and lump around like a typical bus, while Vivas are more nimble and maneuverable. Maybe it's just my imagination.

taal said:
I'm just throwing this out there ...

I ride about 50% TTC 50% YRT (Viva and otherwise).

Does anyone else find YRT bus drives are way more passive ... i.e. less aggressive ... particularly when leaving stops. I don't find this as much on Viva buses but most of the others ... it's as if they don't know they should have right of way ... it's annoying at times!
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I notice this too, and to be honest I think the right of way law is in Toronto only. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Regardless, I definitely feel that YRT drivers are much more passive than TTC drivers and sometimes that can be a good thing... I notice less conflicts with customers even though the fare is $3.25. They're generally more sincere, and they say hello often, etc. But yeah, sometimes they let a good 5 cars cut them off before pushing themselves back into the stream of traffic. Kind of frustrating when you lost that initial acceleration because idiot drivers don't want to give the bus the right of way.
 
meh, I honestly don't notice that driver's are more or less nice between the YRT and TTC ... a lot of TTC drivers say hello / bye when you get on and off ... at least to me : - )

and just to end that myth ... I've seen my share of conflicts on YRT buses between drivers and passengers ... a few on the express when customers argue that they don't need to add the 50cents more.

Also, a few about getting off early, which escalated into a yelling match.

These just just don't happen to be reported by the media ... go figure.


Another big issue here ... there is a lot less interaction between YRT and it's customers and compared to the TTC. This stems from the fact that the vast majority of people by YRT tickets from 3rd party vendors in other stations and the like. A lot of times the only direct interaction is with drivers.
 
xtremesniper said:
I notice this too, and to be honest I think the right of way law is in Toronto only. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Regardless, I definitely feel that YRT drivers are much more passive than TTC drivers and sometimes that can be a good thing... I notice less conflicts with customers even though the fare is $3.25. They're generally more sincere, and they say hello often, etc. But yeah, sometimes they let a good 5 cars cut them off before pushing themselves back into the stream of traffic. Kind of frustrating when you lost that initial acceleration because idiot drivers don't want to give the bus the right of way.
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Right of way is an Ontario Traffic law.

As a driver for YRT who does sometimes (usually really) let a few cars go before I merge, the reason that I do it (I can't speak for all drivers) is that 1) my schedule usually has so much time that I'm trying to kill time wherever possible without just "sitting" at all my timing points. Also 2) the way most of us are trained, or at least I was anyways, is that the law requires a vehicle to "give" you the way, it's not up to the bus driver to "take" the way, and if we "take" the way and something happens (accident etc) we will most likely be at fault by our management. Plus, most of us just aren't the aggressive type (YRT I mean, not Viva, I won't even go there.. LOL)
 
Thanks for the input, actually I think you might have hit it on the nail.

Maybe the main reason is the schedules ... the TTC, in rush hour in particular runs very tight schedules with (on many routes) almost full buses.

The opposite is true for most YRT routes so they might have more *room* to play with they schedules.
 
Thanks for that insight. It's always handy to hear things from the perspective of the drivers themselves.

But I guess that's basically the problem. In order for YRT to become more successful in ridership, they need to prove to people that they can get them places fast and efficiently. When drivers drive by a bus that is driving along really slowly or taking a stop-over somewhere, they are no doubt thinking to themselves, "wow, no way I'll ever take the bus. It would take me forever to get to where I'm going".

The schedules need to be tightened a bit (not too much, obviously, otherwise we'll end up with the TTC's (and sometimes Viva's) famous "4 bus conga line") in order to keep the buses moving and show riders and non-riders that this is a feasible form of alternate transportation. All drivers ever do when they think about buses is compare the bus riding experience to their driving experience, especially timing.
 
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