raptor
Senior Member
I don't think Brampton is the ideal all municipalities should strive to. While YR is building subways and BRT lanes, Brampton says "no thanks".
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- Thread starter waterloowarrior
- Start date
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Is that a reference to the Hurontario-Main LRT?
ShonTron
Moderator
Yeah, but they run a lot more buses, and they're actually doing a decent job of increasing ridership. What's the point of building expensive BRT lanes when the buses only run every 15 minutes and your 2016 ridership increase was only 1.2%?
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Or every 30 minutes on some sections of highway 7 as of yesterday.
Sandpit
Active Member
I think there are two issues with YRT. One is that operations are contracted out. Two is that York Region is simply too big: I think York Region should be split into two at Bloomington: Thornhill and Sutton are like a world apart.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
I haven't noticed this earlier, but the vivaNext project map was updated again:
Some notable changes are the addition of the current/future Viva Curbside service, Rapidways on Major Mackenzie East of Leslie and STEELES?!?!, new terminals at 407, Pioneer Village, Clark, Steeles, 427, Concord. The map is starting to get really cluttered and should really be split into two, current and future.
Some notable changes are the addition of the current/future Viva Curbside service, Rapidways on Major Mackenzie East of Leslie and STEELES?!?!, new terminals at 407, Pioneer Village, Clark, Steeles, 427, Concord. The map is starting to get really cluttered and should really be split into two, current and future.
Rainforest
Senior Member
I think they are doing what they can, under the circumstances: very large area, no major universities and few college campuses, few captive riders (either poor residents or a concentration of university / college students).
Instead of subsidizing the bus grid at a higher level to get better frequencies (but still low ridership counts), they are investing in a few key corridors, operating servise with premium features, and attempting to attract choice riders.
The transit modal share remains low, but there is no guarantee that it would be higher had they followed the Brampton's or Mississauga's model (not even mentioning the TTC). Each region's situation is unlike others.
ShonTron
Moderator
Brampton only has one college campus - a secondary campus of Sheridan College. But it made the decision to run frequent buses to Humber and York University, and it has paid off. Brampton, too, invested in a few key corridors with Zum, but spent money only on customized bus shelters, additional buses, queue-jump lanes, and real-time tracking and signal priority. But the service on major non-Zum corridors, like Kennedy or Chinguacousy Roads, blows away the service on equivalent York Region corridors, like 16th Avenue or Woodbine, or Markham Road.
Rainforest
Senior Member
It seems to me that Brampton has a higher percentage of recent immigrants who either can't afford a car or didn't get a driver's license yet. Thus, they represent a pool of captive riders.
It would be a bit cynical to call poorer population an "advantage" for transit planning, but anyway, technically that helps to fill the local buses and make them appear well-used.
I'd be happy to see better local bus service in York Region, and would benefit from it somewhat as I live near the border. But, they may have a good reason for holding that off, rather than just being incompetent.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
York Region has some lower-income residents too, but they're all concentrated along Yonge Street (and Steeles to a lesser extent, where the TTC is available). And you're not wrong - in big cities, lower-income residents are the most likely to take transit, especially outside of rush hour (which is when YRT service is especially bad). Higher-income residents are also especially unlikely to take buses. Generally speaking, either they live close to some sort of rail transit (subway, LRT, streetcar, etc.) or they drive. Even if York Region had all it's main routes running every 10 minutes, only a few of them would see much of a ridership increase.
Like I've said a few times in this thread, nobody moves to York Region because they're priced out of Toronto - they move because they want to be in the car-friendly, low-congestion suburbs, and those people are hardly ever going to take the bus regardless of how cheap or frequent you make it. This is why the TTC builds cheap commuter parking lots and kiss & ride loops, and it's why YRT and Go Transit let their passengers park for free.
Sandpit
Active Member
A lot of York Region residents are from Hong Kong/Mainland China. They move to York Region because they want lots of space for their children and they heard there are good schools there. They also don't want to live like they do back home, because that would defeat the purpose of moving to Canada, and this means single detached houses (maybe a townhouse) and lots of auto use. You're right, those people are hardly ever going to take the bus regardless of how cheap or frequent you make it, because if they wanted to take the bus, they would never have left Hong Kong/China.
But there is one thing that would make them reconsider: age. Children graduate from school and move out. The novelty of the "Canadian lifestyle" with big yards and two cars in the garage wears off. Driving starts to become a tiring chore. A condo starts to become an appealing choice, because it's less space to clean, and going up and down stairs all day is a hassle. Some of them even start to doubt their own driving ability. Those are the people who might start to take the bus if you make it attractive enough.
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
If they wanted to take the bus they'd probably move to one of the condo buildings on Highway 7, where transit it good (or was - the neutering of Viva Purple off-peak is a disgrace). I think what's more common in York Region is the one-car household. Nobody's going to choose to rely on transit, but some couples will try to shed off one of their two cars. If they both work, one would drop the other off somewhere along the way where the rest of the trip is quick and direct by public transit.
Based on the 2011 Transportation Tomorrow Survey, about 3 in 10 York Region households are one-car households, but only 1 in 25 are zero-car households. Both of those are concentrated around Davis Drive in Newmarket (wards 2, 3, 4 and 5), Yonge Street in Richmond Hill (ward 2 in particular), and throughout Thornhill. It's unsurprising that that's where YRT is focusing its transit improvements for now.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Just a random question, but does anyone think the Viva Routes should have more than just a colour in their name? Like a number or a letter?
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Eh... I don't think it's that big of a deal. Something tells me that I have seen documents from YRT where the VIVA routes do have an internal number but I don't think that affects the everyday user.
