potatopizzafan
Active Member
Anyone know what the deal is with this lot on 17th ave? Seems insane to me that this is just sitting there unused for so long. The lot must be worth a fortune
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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
Anyone know what the deal is with this lot on 17th ave? Seems insane to me that this is just sitting there unused for so long. The lot must be worth a fortune
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Owner of that site tore down like 11 houses 5 or 6 years ago and tried to turn it into parking (which the city rejected) so it's just sat empty. The City was using it as a staging area for all the utility work on 17th, and that's supposed to continue this year I believe, so likely more staging in the next year or two.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Great idea, but we don't even need the redevelopment. Now that's worth closing the road for, have a seasonal beer garden/park extension built between Crescent Heights Park and the edge of the bluff. Do it right and raise up the roadway so it's quality. Better yet divert the pathway behind a beer garden and have it right on the bluff.
Ottawa is not known to be a particularly interesting or innovative city, but one thing they nailed is the beer garden in the public park idea, at least in a North American context. They have them all over the place, city centre and further out. They are simple and seasonal, but that's kind of the point. Something like this in Major's Hill Park would be a slam dunk in Crescent Heights:
Here's another Ottawa example in a far more suburban context. Kind of like Angel's in Edworthy Park, but way more casual with sprawling, temporary patios and pathway oriented:
In order for this to happen, Calgary would need to break (at least) 4 very tough mental barriers:
- It's okay for uses to mix such as parks/pathways/houses/seasonal beer gardens
- All perceived nuisances from mixing uses can be as handled via operational design and enforcement rather than blanket bans on activities (e.g. to avoid noise at night, no outdoor speakers and patio closes at 10pm v. to avoid noise at night, no patios are allowed ever, anywhere within walking distance)
- Residents of Crescent Heights (or any neighbourhood) have no unique right to the publicly owned space in their neighbourhood including the park and street
- Streets can be things other than for cars all year round and the world won't end
Normally I would say Crescents Heights probably isn't the place to start with my kind of "radical" Ottawa-style park reform, but the more I think about it it might be a great opportunity. After all, the arguably "more appropriate" places (e.g. a main street, Bow River Pathway etc.) can't seem to overcome these barriers either, likely because they have far more powerful resistors to reform via parks and transportation departments, existing festivals, stronger competing demands etc.
Crescent Heights has proven demand and there's a half block of Crescent Road that's over 100m from any house. Take all that suspicious loitering the community is concerned with, and put it to good work as patrons of a beer garden. Plus a new profit centre for the parks department
Cyric
Active Member
Several years ago there was this proposal: https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/f...-m-26s-pba-land-development-gibbs-gage.24993/ Never went anywhere, it does still show up on the PBA Developments page though.
UrbanWarrior
Senior Member
This sort of thing already happens a lot at St Patricks Island.
Sambo
New Member
Some type of food/beer spot up there would be awesome. It would make a killing.Great idea, but we don't even need the redevelopment. Now that's worth closing the road for, have a seasonal beer garden/park extension built between Crescent Heights Park and the edge of the bluff. Do it right and raise up the roadway so it's quality. Better yet divert the pathway behind a beer garden and have it right on the bluff.
View attachment 391988
Ottawa is not known to be a particularly interesting or innovative city, but one thing they nailed is the beer garden in the public park idea, at least in a North American context. They have them all over the place, city centre and further out. They are simple and seasonal, but that's kind of the point. Something like this in Major's Hill Park would be a slam dunk in Crescent Heights:
View attachment 391989
View attachment 391990
Here's another Ottawa example in a far more suburban context. Kind of like Angel's in Edworthy Park, but way more casual with sprawling, temporary patios and pathway oriented:
View attachment 391991
In order for this to happen, Calgary would need to break (at least) 4 very tough mental barriers:
That's a lot to push through.
- It's okay for uses to mix such as parks/pathways/houses/seasonal beer gardens
- All perceived nuisances from mixing uses can be as handled via operational design and enforcement rather than blanket bans on activities (e.g. to avoid noise at night, no outdoor speakers and patio closes at 10pm v. to avoid noise at night, no patios are allowed ever, anywhere within walking distance)
- Residents of Crescent Heights (or any neighbourhood) have no unique right to the publicly owned space in their neighbourhood including the park and street
- Streets can be things other than for cars all year round and the world won't end
Normally I would say Crescents Heights probably isn't the place to start with my kind of "radical" Ottawa-style park reform, but the more I think about it it might be a great opportunity. After all, the arguably "more appropriate" places (e.g. a main street, Bow River Pathway etc.) can't seem to overcome these barriers either, likely because they have far more powerful resistors to reform via parks and transportation departments, existing festivals, stronger competing demands etc.
Crescent Heights has proven demand and there's a half block of Crescent Road that's over 100m from any house. Take all that suspicious loitering the community is concerned with, and put it to good work as patrons of a beer garden. Plus a new profit centre for the parks department
Urban Outdoorsman
Active Member
This isn't Calgary, or even AB related, but a 42 story tower is breaking ground in Kelowna soon and I just gotta say it's nuts what's going on in that city.
KelownaNow: VIDEO: Kelowna's tallest residential development breaks ground.
www.kelownanow.com
I worked in Kelowna for a few months this summer and it's unbelievable how much inner city development is going on there. There's so much demand for housing, and virtually no more land left to extend outward to, that the city is building up. It'll be really interesting to see what that city is like in 20 years if these development trends continue.
Besides the obvious issue of affordability, geographic constraints almost seem like the single best predictor of how densely cities develop. Part of me wishes Calgary was similarly constrained around our borders and were effectively forced to build up.
KelownaNow: VIDEO: Kelowna's tallest residential development breaks ground.
VIDEO: Kelowna's tallest residential development breaks ground
It’s been in the making for just over four years. Construction on Kelowna’s largest and tallest residential development is now unde.
www.kelownanow.com
I worked in Kelowna for a few months this summer and it's unbelievable how much inner city development is going on there. There's so much demand for housing, and virtually no more land left to extend outward to, that the city is building up. It'll be really interesting to see what that city is like in 20 years if these development trends continue.
Besides the obvious issue of affordability, geographic constraints almost seem like the single best predictor of how densely cities develop. Part of me wishes Calgary was similarly constrained around our borders and were effectively forced to build up.
outoftheice
Active Member
Interesting development out of Edmonton. Seems to go far beyond the tweaks we are planning here in Calgary. I wonder if it will make our Council and Admin more ambitious or if the guidebook discussion has left everyone here running scared.
edmontonjournal.com
Edmonton's omnibus zoning bylaw would change entire city and limit development rules
The bylaw would boost density and housing types allowed, like small apartments, rowhouses, garden suites, and supportive housing.
edmontonjournal.com
Daemon
New Member
I live close from there, but me I think the road should be for allowing for cars. Exception for cars that are loud. Maybe there will be only one direction and little parking? I don't know.
Gates on Calgary’s Crescent Road being considered for master plan and safety issues - Calgary | Globalnews.ca
A popular spot for running, graduation photos and having lunch, Crescent Heights residents also say it comes with noise, garbage, speeding and crime.globalnews.ca
As someone who cycles on it a fair bit I wouldn't miss the vehicles, but it does reek of nimbyism.
Duck Lightning
Active Member
If they do put a gate on Crescent Road they should have parking for everyone else that wants to enjoy the view. Also the road should be treated like a park and be closed to visitors after 11 PM. I'd rather they didn't have to gate the road though.
lemongrab
Active Member
Interesting development out of Edmonton. Seems to go far beyond the tweaks we are planning here in Calgary. I wonder if it will make our Council and Admin more ambitious or if the guidebook discussion has left everyone here running scared.
Edmonton's omnibus zoning bylaw would change entire city and limit development rules
The bylaw would boost density and housing types allowed, like small apartments, rowhouses, garden suites, and supportive housing.
A few interesting nuggets from the article:
This part couldn't possibly backfire, right?
Also interesting...I'm sure there's a bit more nuance than that phrasing, but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
TIL a few interesting things about Edmonton municipal governance: they renamed their wards to indigenous names, and their ward boundaries seem like they might mitigate polarity between suburbia and -city (though I wonder how that plays out within each ward)? Or maybe it's just that the wards seem less homogeneous than Calgary?
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
Thought I read a neighbourhood called Trumpster Area up in the north, but I guess it’s actually Trumpeter.
Urban Outdoorsman
Active Member
Wow. I thought the guidebook was contentious! Good for Edmonton if they can make it happen, but I have a hard time imagining this going over well.
I have to say I like that they're actually going ahead and just blanket up-zoning. I wish the LAP process went as far as actually up-zoning.
I have to say I like that they're actually going ahead and just blanket up-zoning. I wish the LAP process went as far as actually up-zoning.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Haha good luck spelling those ward names Edmontonians!
zagox
Active Member
Interesting development out of Edmonton. Seems to go far beyond the tweaks we are planning here in Calgary. I wonder if it will make our Council and Admin more ambitious or if the guidebook discussion has left everyone here running scared.
Edmonton's omnibus zoning bylaw would change entire city and limit development rules
The bylaw would boost density and housing types allowed, like small apartments, rowhouses, garden suites, and supportive housing.
I have no idea whether this will pass or fail but it just seems so much more honest and straightforward than the Guidebook.
Clearly administration wanted to upzone all RC1 and RC2 to RCG, so basically duplexes and rowhouses are allowed everywhere. However, they didn't put that on the table for Council to debate.
Instead, they chose to create a Guidebook that said, we will create local area plans in which the lowest intensity recommended is RCG. And then eventually landowners could use that policy to upzone any RC1/2 lot to RCG fairly easily. I think they imagined that no one would notice that the long-term results would be basically the same as Edmonton's plan. But there were plenty of observant and well-funded people in Elbow Park who saw through this plan.
So, instead of having an honest conversation about the merits of RC1 and RC2 zoning, we had an unnecessarily complex and technocratic proposal that most people viewed with a lot of skepticism about its ulterior motives. And the only interest group that really followed along and made a stink about it were the rich homeowners in fancy RC1 neighborhoods.
It will be very interesting to see what happens in Edmonton. We will probably need a few years of 'cooling down' from the Guidebook before anyone is ready to put forward something similar.