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The only scenario which is worth modelling significant change against is with a constructed Ontario Line, surely? Any modelling done with no DRL, or DRL only to Pape, is going to be superceded. Now, Ontario Line which removing some demand toward Line 1 will also create some net extra, so this isn’t a statement that it will drive down overall ridership, but my assumption is that it will shorten average Crosstown ride lengths because some travellers will converge on Science Centre rather than go all the way to Yonge-Eglinton. Hopefully the easternmost part of the line will also see at least some demand head west east to Kennedy and a frequent service on GO, once all the LSE track is fully back in service and a fit for purpose track arrangement/grade separation is constructed between Scarborough Junction and Kennedy.
 
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T3G said:
I really can't see this happening, not unless the cars end up being lemons. In those 5 years they've sustained very little wear and tear. They'll just keep them to age 35 instead of 30.
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It will be interesting to see if aging is lessened for this fleet versus the downtown trams.... one would think that salt intrusion etc would be less, but the whole fleet has been sitting out in the rain and snow....

And at the end of the day - rust never sleeps.

- Paul
 
TDE said:
Unless they're in for repairs/servicing, cleaning, or stored in the mainline underground, they are outside.
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Oh.

That changes things. How utterly bizzare that the rolling stock was allowed to sit outside for 5 years (and counting!) without ever carrying a paying passenger.

What is it with this town and its refusal to store most of its rail rolling stock indoors? Surely the cars would fare a lot better long term not exposed to the elements.
 
T3G said:
Oh.

That changes things. How utterly bizzare that the rolling stock was allowed to sit outside for 5 years (and counting!) without ever carrying a paying passenger.

What is it with this town and its refusal to store most of its rail rolling stock indoors? Surely the cars would fare a lot better long term not exposed to the elements.
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The service bays will only hold so many cars and where do you plan to store the rest of them that has cover for them??

Very few places in Europe have inside storage for their fleet with most out in the yard. Buffalo store their cars indoors with three others being outside in the US. All of TTC fleet is outdoors.
 
drum118 said:
The service bays will only hold so many cars and where do you plan to store the rest of them that has cover for them??

Very few places in Europe have inside storage for their fleet with most out in the yard. Buffalo store their cars indoors with three others being outside in the US. All of TTC fleet is outdoors.
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You store the rest of them in cover that is built.

What places in Europe are these? Certainly not in central Europe, where tram yards without covered storage are the exception, not the norm.
 
Could a case for subsidized housing be built above the yard such that the yard is covered? I know soundproofing would be a challenge, but it could make use of dead air space.
 
T3G said:
You store the rest of them in cover that is built.

What places in Europe are these? Certainly not in central Europe, where tram yards without covered storage are the exception, not the norm.
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Belgium, Frankfurt, Nice come to mind and did not see every yard for them, other than Nice back in 2012.

micheal_can said:
Could a case for subsidized housing be built above the yard such that the yard is covered? I know soundproofing would be a challenge, but it could make use of dead air space.
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Housing can be built over yards, and you only have to look at TTC Davisville yard that has been on the books for decades of having development over it. Look at what is taking place in NYC where yards are being covered up.
 
Whether stock is stored under cover or not is down to the commissioning agency. If they say “build a covered barn or at least a gas station type roof, we have the $”, the construction designer will open the relevant template and slap it on the drawing. However, the supports for that will require the right footings, may increase minimum spacing between some tracks, would change drainage management for heavy rain or snow melt. Only upside would be being able to slap a bunch of solar panels or a green roof above, neither of which can be classed as transit essential. More useful than some of the public art which is slapped into budgets these days though.
 
drum118 said:
Housing can be built over yards, and you only have to look at TTC Davisville yard that has been on the books for decades of having development over it. Look at what is taking place in NYC where yards are being covered up.
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It would sure help to solve the housing crisis. It could also make their lives easier living at a transit station.
 
dowlingm said:
Only upside would be being able to slap a bunch of solar panels or a green roof above, neither of which can be classed as transit essential.
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Only upside? I would think that not leaving the vehicles under the wide open sky and lessening weather related wear and tear would be a pretty substantial upside in and of itself. Especially in the case of the Crosstown, where the cars have been around for 5 years without seeing any passengers.

drum118 said:
Belgium, Frankfurt, Nice come to mind and did not see every yard for them, other than Nice back in 2012.
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Well, I can tell you that Prague, Bratislava, Brno, and Košice all have indoor storage at most of their facilities. There is one yard in Bratislava which has been criticized for the last 40 years for not having indoor storage, and there is a vapourware plan kicking about to cover it over.
 
T3G said:
Only upside? I would think that not leaving the vehicles under the wide open sky and lessening weather related wear and tear would be a pretty substantial upside in and of itself. Especially in the case of the Crosstown, where the cars have been around for 5 years without seeing any passengers.


Well, I can tell you that Prague, Bratislava, Brno, and Košice all have indoor storage at most of their facilities. There is one yard in Bratislava which has been criticized for the last 40 years for not having indoor storage, and there is a vapourware plan kicking about to cover it over.
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Looking at yards and OMSF was not on my list of places to visit during my/our trips for trams. The ones I noted were the ones I/we came upon during our travels. All RR yards were not covered regardless of it being fright or passenger in Europe. I have seen a few tram yards in the US that I have gone looking for with a few you can't get close to them like RR yards. Otherwise, leave it to others that have seen Europe OMSF to tell us what takes place over there.
 
Don't know if this has already been asked but.............seeing the speed limit on Eglinton is 50km/hr, will the LRT have an exemption from this {ie 70km/hr} or is this $12 billion "rapid" transit line going to warp out at 50?
 
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