[smallspy]

On Saturday, I filmed some of the new weekend Barrie Line trains at the passing track between Maple and King City.

Both trains had 10 car sets with two locomotives each. I didn't see anyone on the trains other than the conductor, though there could have been people on the upper decks.

It seems awfully wasteful to run big dual-engine consists on this low-ridership service. Maybe they should create weekday consists with a cab car in the middle so that trains can easily be split into smaller trains on weekends. That would cut way down on fuel use and could yield better acceleration, depending on how many cars they run.

They are supposed to run a pair of the L10 consists on the weekend trains, not the L10Ls. Not sure why they seem to have changed that.

As for splitting the trains, they will then need to get carmen out there, perform additional brake tests, etc. before and after running the service. It's not just a matter of pulling a coupler cut lever and off you go.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

On Saturday, I filmed some of the new weekend Barrie Line trains at the passing track between Maple and King City.

Both trains had 10 car sets with two locomotives each. I didn't see anyone on the trains other than the conductor, though there could have been people on the upper decks.

I wouldn't expect much ridership on the first day of a new service. See if anyone is riding on the days of special events in Toronto like the Honda Indy or the CNE. If the trains are empty on those days I'd be surprised. How much has this service been publicized in the media in the Barrie area?

 

[reaperexpress]

As for splitting the trains, they will then need to get carmen out there, perform additional brake tests, etc. before and after running the service. It's not just a matter of pulling a coupler cut lever and off you go.

OK, so when they split trains they need to perform brake tests and such. That would be done in the yard before service begins on Saturday, and again after service ends on Sunday.

There are only 2 trainsets running all weekend, so that's not much work to get quite a lot of savings.

I wouldn't expect much ridership on the first day of a new service. See if anyone is riding on the days of special events in Toronto like the Honda Indy or the CNE. If the trains are empty on those days I'd be surprised. How much has this service been publicized in the media in the Barrie area?

I live near York University station, but all I've seen is a small entry in the local newspaper.

I'm well aware that ridership needs time to grow, especially when it's such a big departure from what people expect of the line. My concern isn't that the service is a waste of money, my concern is that GO will cancel it before it has the opportunity to be successful. I think they need to run it either a full year, or two summers before they make a judgment. One summer doesn't seem like enough.

When GO introduced route 40 RHC-Airport Express, I was concerned it would get canceled due to very low ridership. But now, a few years later, ridership is pretty decent. I think people discovered the service through word of mouth, or from the YRT stop announcements at RHC.

 

[RandomBusGuy]

The new Barrie line weekend service has been pretty well advertised in Barrie on the news and in the papers. I used the 5:00 train from Barrie on Sunday night. Maybe 30 people got on at each Barrie station. When I was waiting at the station a couple people asked me where the ticket machines were, so they're definitely reaching some new people. My parents are people who would never take the bus, but they're considering using the weekend service to go shopping in Toronto this summer.

I definitely hope ridership increases though, so GO keeps the service. I'd guess only 200-300 people got off the train at Union.

I also used the new Mississauga/Guelph GO bus sunday night, and it was fairly empty. Only 5 or 6 of us on the bus, but it was at 8:30 after Square One closed. I'm sure ridership on that route will be much higher in September when University students are back.

 

[aleesia]

I also used the new Mississauga/Guelph GO bus sunday night, and it was fairly empty. Only 5 or 6 of us on the bus, but it was at 8:30 after Square One closed. I'm sure ridership on that route will be much higher in September when University students are back.

25, 25C and 47G are definitely crazy busy at Square One on Sundays. Those are the ones that desperately need service increase.

Around 10 passengers embark at Yorkdale, then all of 47G's seats get filled at York U, then half of them get off at Square One, then a lot more are waiting to embark at the bus. That bus will be a standing-only room. 47G can definitely be split into 47 and 19. The new 47 can run more frequently, or at least add service to those times when the 47G gets severely congested, and...

They can run 19 between Square One and Finch Terminal 7 days a week (I think it's 19A?). That will give those waiting at York U some seats. Maybe add weekday midday and early evening two-way service as well.

OR

They can make a new branch of 19 (19D?) starting from Oakville GO, then following Route 46 until Square One, then follow 19 until it reaches Finch Terminal. That can give relief to those waiting at Square One. Maybe add weekday midday and early evening two-way service as well.



The buses to/from Waterloo are the craziest in all of the GO buses that I had ever seen. I'm really surprised that they don't really run that much express buses, especially that 29 has been given hourly 7-day service. I'm hoping that 25 will get the same service increase as well.

 

[smallspy]

OK, so when they split trains they need to perform brake tests and such. That would be done in the yard before service begins on Saturday, and again after service ends on Sunday.

There are only 2 trainsets running all weekend, so that's not much work to get quite a lot of savings.

That's assuming, of course, that the fuel savings would be significant. And I don't think they would, to be honest. The only real advantage would be a of a marginally faster trip.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[reaperexpress]

That's assuming, of course, that the fuel savings would be significant. And I don't think they would, to be honest. The only real advantage would be a of a marginally faster trip.

Compared to an L10L consist, an L5 would have massive fuel savings, without being any slower.

Compared to an L10 consist, fuel savings wouldn't be that huge, but acceleration would be much better. In my video, you can see the first train accelerate from nearly a standstill to a decent speed within the time it takes to pass me. An L10 would have only half as much power as that train, which would heavily impact acceleration.

Although the time and fuel savings may be minor, they are still probably more significant than the cost of uncoupling a trainset once a week.

 

[gm152]

It was scheduled to be a 12 car train, but I didn't get a chance to actually see if that was the case.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Indeed, that train did have 12 passenger cars.

Glen

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Compared to an L10L consist, an L5 would have massive fuel savings, without being any slower.

Compared to an L10 consist, fuel savings wouldn't be that huge, but acceleration would be much better. In my video, you can see the first train accelerate from nearly a standstill to a decent speed within the time it takes to pass me. An L10 would have only half as much power as that train, which would heavily impact acceleration.

Although the time and fuel savings may be minor, they are still probably more significant than the cost of uncoupling a trainset once a week.

Your still forgetting that the 5th car is the accessible car. And obviously you can't operate a train from the accessible car when its going in reverse.
Meaning its not as simple as doing a consist split and completing the schedule A with the required no. 1 brake test (more info here:http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco0150-139.htm) and that's it.

So now what do you do?
First you have to determine if its possible to allocate at least 2 shop staff members to Barrie for the weekend. Would this require hiring more staff? Would the fuel savings even cover the cost of these extra hours?
So if they go ahead with that, after splitting a consist in half you'd need to add cab car on each end without an engine. That's provided they even have a couple extra cab cars floating around(I don't know off hand since I don't work in the shop). Then you'd have to do some switching to get the cab cars tacked on which might be kind of difficult since they don't really have much space/tracks to use up there for switching operations. Then you'd have to do it all in reverse once they're done for the weekend.

Basically I'm sure they've assessed that possibility and most likely they've determined that any fuel savings would be offset by the additional manpower costs.

 

[reaperexpress]

Your still forgetting that the 5th car is the accessible car. And obviously you can't operate a train from the accessible car when its going in reverse.
Meaning its not as simple as doing a consist split and completing the schedule A with the required no. 1 brake test (more info here:http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco0150-139.htm) and that's it.

So now what do you do?
First you have to determine if its possible to allocate at least 2 shop staff members to Barrie for the weekend. Would this require hiring more staff? Would the fuel savings even cover the cost of these extra hours?
So if they go ahead with that, after splitting a consist in half you'd need to add cab car on each end without an engine. That's provided they even have a couple extra cab cars floating around(I don't know off hand since I don't work in the shop). Then you'd have to do some switching to get the cab cars tacked on which might be kind of difficult since they don't really have much space/tracks to use up there for switching operations. Then you'd have to do it all in reverse once they're done for the weekend.

Basically I'm sure they've assessed that possibility and most likely they've determined that any fuel savings would be offset by the additional manpower costs.

I think what killed my idea isn't the accessible car, it's the work crew in Barrie. You're almost certainly right that that cost would offset the fuel and time savings.

I did actually think of the accessible car, but I thought that new cab cars might be useable as one.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

In any case I do agree with your idea, it would of saved a some time and I've heard that the trains are currently only about 10-15% full. But that's my best guess as to why GO didn't implement it and I can understand their reasoning if so re:cost being the most important factor.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

On another note, the OCS(dark territory) to CTC(signalize) conversion has been completed for the Uxbridge sub and is now in service. We'll likely seem some schedule modifications shortly as trains will no longer be restricted by the minimum 30 minute separation time as per Transport Canada's edict on the Stouffville line.

This project was only 3 months late

 

[Allandale25]

On another note, the OCS(dark territory) to CTC(signalize) conversion has been completed for the Uxbridge sub and is now in service. We'll likely seem some schedule modifications shortly as trains will no longer be restricted by the minimum 30 minute separation time as per Transport Canada's edict on the Stouffville line.

This project was only 3 months late

Great to hear! When do you think we'll see the changes?

 

[gweed123]

On another note, the OCS(dark territory) to CTC(signalize) conversion has been completed for the Uxbridge sub and is now in service. We'll likely seem some schedule modifications shortly as trains will no longer be restricted by the minimum 30 minute separation time as per Transport Canada's edict on the Stouffville line.

This project was only 3 months late

That is definitely great news!

It'll be interesting to see if we'll see a spike in ridership when the service frequencies are increased (i.e. increase in ridership proportional to the increase in capacity).

 

[nfitz]

Great to hear! When do you think we'll see the changes?

There were no further increases in GO Trains in Metrolinx's just released 2012-2013 plan ... so no increases in frequency until 2013 - though I suppose they could modify the existing runs.