innsertnamehere
Superstar
I would worry that we would lose a strong VIA network outside of Toronto-Montreal-Ottawa for that however. I would rather not lose VIA service to windsor.
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- Thread starter drum118
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BMO
Senior Member
Maybe provide an opportunity for VIA to focus it's efforts on the Quebec-Windsor corridor? Maybe instead of spending money on the local routes that would presumably be taken up by GO, it could focus some capital spending towards increasing the Q-W corridor speed.
That could work. Trains from Ottawa and Montreal run local (Ottawa-Fallowfield-Smiths Falls-Brockville-Kingston, Montreal-IDon'tKnowAllTheStopsInBetween-Kingston), and then express from Kingston to Toronto. Ditto for Toronto to London on the west side. Passengers bound for anywhere in between could transfer to a GO route. Maybe include one station in between those points so that someone going from Trenton to Ottawa doesn't have to GO all the way to Kingston. Perhaps stops in K-W and Belleville would be in order.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
You're assuming people are solely travelling between Niagara Region and Toronto? The EA estimates much of the corridor travel demand would occur between Niagara and Hamilton/South Peel.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I think I understand where this comes from but would it work in practice? Use my personal example....I live in a city in between those two that will soon be 600k in population but if I was going to London they would hope to attract me to the train by offering me a 40 minute train ride SE to switch to another train that would retrace those same km back and then head to London? It would seem to me that would make the choice between train or car pretty easy to make.
That's why I suggested adding stops in Kitchener and Belleville respectively. That way, you wouldn't have to do any backtracking. But it would still increase the overall speed compared to the current Via service.
Also, this would allow GO to open or re-open stations in smaller towns that have been largely bypassed by Via service. It would also allow the addition of new stations within existing areas, like a station in east Kitchener for example. Or to boost frequencies at stations that frequently get bypassed, like Port Hope, Trenton, and Napanee.
BMO
Senior Member
Fair enough, obviously some tweaking would be needed, this method of express and local routes works quite well in Europe, you'll often end up at a earlier or similar time taking an express/ local instead of just taking one local train. Ideally the express stops would be adequately separated so that it would minimize passengers having to backtrack on local routes for very long.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Yes, totally agree. Of course, two things would really help:
1. Having cross-platform transfers at Kingston and London. This allows a GO-local to meet up with a VIA-express at coordinated times so that passengers can transfer from one to another to continue their journeys. I don't know about London, but Kingston is not set up in this way.
2. Rebranded GO regional service, with new rolling stock - different interiors, at the very least. Ultimately, I think there should be just two services: GO-REX (S-bahn) and GO-Regional, which is the long distance service you talk about here. GO-regional would require slightly more comfier seats and two classes of service, if it's going to be codeshared with VIA. For example, a Via 1 passenger should be able to transfer to a GO-local and sit in a first class car. A bistro car, or somewhere where you can buy a hot meal and sit down would be a plus*.
* The fact that VIA doesn't have a cafe car on its corridor service was always a big minus to me. Many shorter distance Amtrak routes have cafe cars, as do most European intercitys. I've taken 5 hour train rides on VIA where all they had to eat was a bag of chips.
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Wrenkin
Active Member
When was this? They sometimes run out of certain items (cheese plate, penne) but I've never had them run out of everything. And if they did run out of food for the in-seat meals, why wouldn't they have similarly run out if the food was stored instead in a central cafe car?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I noticed today that the construction on the full Markham platform has started.
There was talk earlier about creating a 3 tiered transit system: GO REX for local travel, GO Regional for travel for areas between London, Niagara Falls, Barrie, and Kingston, and Via to cover long distance trips. I was thinking about incorporating this into my GO REX map (showing the GO Regional). For the routing to London, I think going via Brantford is probably the better routing than going via Kitchener. What I was thinking instead was have the GO REX service to Kitchener terminate at a Kitchener West station instead.
This also sets Aldershot up perfectly as a transfer station between GO REX trains, Niagara Falls-bound Regional trains, and London-bound Regional trains. Stops on the London line would include Union, Long Branch, Aldershot, Brantford, Woodstock, Ingersoll, London. IMO, quite a few more trip generators than a routing to London via Kitchener. Thoughts?
This also sets Aldershot up perfectly as a transfer station between GO REX trains, Niagara Falls-bound Regional trains, and London-bound Regional trains. Stops on the London line would include Union, Long Branch, Aldershot, Brantford, Woodstock, Ingersoll, London. IMO, quite a few more trip generators than a routing to London via Kitchener. Thoughts?
canarob
Senior Member
Not a full platform, but a new, shorter West platform that should still help immeasurably since most of the parking is west of the tracks and there is no grade seperation. Boarding from both sides should speed everything up. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...NwBuc8kw7D0fH6PfA&sig2=EZ9u8gGu6lZ3OzRuu-n7IQ
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Aldershot has 2 advantages: it's near Bayview Jct and there's great car access.
I think Aldershot should always remain because of its car access (let's face it, this will always be important in the GTA), but I think Hamilton James Street should be the primary transfer point/hub for all these trains, especially if we want to intensify downtown Hamilton. Both Lakeshore GO-REX and Niagara-bound services would use James St., anyway. The only detour would be for VIA/regional trains heading from Toronto to London via Brantford. But if these are push-pull trains with cab cars, it's not that hard to run into Hamilton James street and then back out toward Bayview Junction.
That is to say that I think that it's important for there to be one seat Hamilton-London service, and the time costs for Torontonians going to London would be pretty minimal.
Just to be clear, you're suggesting that Toronto-London trains should head into Hamilton James, turn around, and continue onto either London or Toronto? Interesting. It makes sense from a connectivity point of view, but I don't know if it would be practical from a rail operations point of view.
TFC
Active Member
In terms of trip generators, I think Malton, Brampton, Georgetown, Guelph, Kitchener, Stratford and St. Mary's combined is greater than Long Branch, Aldershot, Brantford, Woodstock and Ingorsoll. All of the major trip generators on the Brantford alignment already have 30 minute GO service, whereas the Brampton alignment just has peak service.