[JGHali]

And another poll released the same day showed Doug Ford at 16%. Of course, if you believe Forum's numbers, you'd also have to believe that the heretofore unpopular Doug Ford has suddenly become the most popular candidate amongst the 18-34 crowd. Which I don't buy for a second.

Having said that, Chow would need to make up considerable ground in North York especially to win. She also needs to take the core and York/East York. That may be a tall order, but there are many reasons to doubt the accuracy of polls now compared to 2010. Essentially Chow must recreate the same coalition of support as Miller in 2003. I'm not sure that's really such a tall order.

 

[nfitz]

The very first poll Doug Ford was mentioned had him at 34 percent. Tory at 41. He's only dropped to 28 percent in the last week. Tory is not going to cruise to victory at this point. Olivia is not winning. She had a 9 month lead and blew it.

It's quite clear the first poll was an outlier, putting Chow at over 7 and closer to 10 points below every poll before it, and every poll after it. Remember that about 1 in 20 polls just aren't correct - and this appears to be the 1 in 20 poll. Doug Ford isn't going to be elected. I doubt it will even be close.

The school crap doesn't and that is what I was talking about.

I'm not sure what it is your on about then.

Don't sully Nuno Bettencourt

Is this aimed at me? I have to Google this person. Ah, related to this Extreme band I've never heard of. Still not getting the comment though ... if it helps, I recogize the "More than Words" song, and thought it was okay ... but I guess the band never made it to my radar. Funny, I assumed it was somthing recent - I was still paying attention back in the 1980s and early 1990s. Hmm, now I'm curious ...

 

[nohostages]

It's quite clear the first poll was an outlier, putting Chow at over 7 and closer to 10 points below every poll before it, and every poll after it. Remember that about 1 in 20 polls just aren't correct - and this appears to be the 1 in 20 poll. Doug Ford isn't going to be elected. I doubt it will even be close.

I'm not sure what it is your on about then.

Is this aimed at me? I have to Google this person. Ah, related to this Extreme band I've never heard of. Still not getting the comment though ... if it helps, I recogize the "More than Words" song, and thought it was okay ... but I guess the band never made it to my radar. Funny, I assumed it was somthing recent - I was still paying attention back in the 1980s and early 1990s. Hmm, now I'm curious ...

My bad nfitz. No not aimed at you, quite the opposite. I was trying to let Watts feel his/ her own words but I effed up the quote buttons. (on hand held, clumsy thumbs). Doesn't the troll word put a firm stop to any meaningful discourse?( It looks like a she to me) She does not let up its true, but each post got a little nuttier.Nuno Betancourt is a smoking good guitarist with a couple solo albums, and plays on dozens of other peoples recordings. Most recently he was on rhianna's road tour (and maybe her album can't recall) he got some recognition with Extreme which was not as bad as thier hit would suggest, but hos best stuff is more jazzy and experimental. Must admit his looks don't hurt either. ( Terrible terribly shallow girl)

 

[Watts]

My views are evolving. He supported a racist, he is a racist.

Anyone who knowingly support a racist is a racist. Yes, I know I was softer on him previously, as I was somewhat reluctantly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over this Rob Ford support. But the more I pondered it yesterday, the more pissed off I became. Sure, perhaps some rube in Etobicrack or Scarberia might not be aware. However Rob Ford's racism was widely discussed during the 2010 election - including here, I'm sure you remember. And John Tory's job at the time was to pay attention to such stuff. It's difficult to swallow that he didn't know about Rob Ford's racism.

Hence the evolution of my position.

To the point of advocating the provision of public money to allow creationism to be taught in schools - yes.

Really, I'm supposed to take the opinion of someone who has spent today highlight Adolf Hitler's good points seriously? ROTFLMAO.

I've not heard of either of those people.

How does pointing out Adolf Hitler's good qualities put up a good one?

Doug Ford hasn't got a hope in hell of achieving 33%. He can't win, no matter who people vote for. To think otherwise is falling for the dirty tricks of Nick Kouvalis, who is trying to make people think otherwise. Nick Kouvalis - former chief of staff under Rob Ford ... another racist supporter. This isn't like 2010 where Rob Ford was leading the polls. At this point in 2010, the September polls showed Ford with 39%, 46%, and 46% with no one else better than 26%. If Doug Ford starts showing those numbers, even I'd vote for John Tory if he was running second. But this isn't the case.

It has everything to do with the election. Yesterday, John Tory showed that he is an anti-gay bigot with his announcement that he would defund Pride if a certain group attended Pride. I've seen similar signs at York University - would it be okay to defund York University if such a group had signs on campus? To object to that group is fine. To select the only group you would defund being Pride demonstrates anti-gay bigotry.

Clearly John Tory is prejudiced. If you support John Tory ...

Ironically, this is exactly where I was at - though a little uncomfortable with Tory's association with Nick Kouvalis. However that went out the window with his anti-gay position yesterday. So who has the best chance of beating Tory other than Ford?

I've never resisted the urge to go full on, blistering ad hominem with anyone more than when I talk with you. I think most here would agree with me (silently) that you're one of, if not the most, discombobulating people we've ever encountered. I've tried to be patient with you but you have the reasoning ability of a little child. I spelled out my Hitler point in the simplest of terms and you still don't get it. It's as if you think I thought his genocide and delusions of grandeur were great things that ought to be lauded. Get a frigging clue. The whole point of that illustration was to show that even the worst of people can possess qualities that others can appreciate. I'm not absolving Hitler of his atrocities. Understand? But no, you just see the name, 'Hitler', and think of all the evil that encompassed his being, and black out the rest of what I was saying. How did you ever graduate with such poor perception skills? I guess anyone that likes Ernest Hemingway's writing advocates for suicide by shotgun? Everyone that bought Michael Jackson's records must be strongly in favour of plastic surgery? After all, if one supports someone like MJ, then they too would have to have serious mental health issues as well. It's just common sense...Who needs any middle ground? I wish John Tory was reading this so that he could sue you for libel. You would make the worst lawyer of all time. Imagine you trying to convince a judge and jury that John Tory is a racist, on the grounds you have provided, lol. It would be hilarious.

You keep calling Tory a bigot for wanting to defund Pride. What is your opinion of gay people that don't support public funding for pride; or even support the parade at all? Are they bigots? Answer that, you bully.

"My views are evolving. He supported a racist, he is a racist."

No, your views aren't evolving. They're going back and forth, ironically like John Tory's political ideas. You're a racist accuser/flip-flopper.

 

[Watts]

Hey watts: Sometimes I think you're just a massive troll, or you might just have a learning disability. It's as if you're purposely trying to get under the skin of others by completely misinterpreting what others say,

Don't sully Nuno Bettencourt

At first I thought you had some points but....
Fixed that for me

ETA we aren't far apart politically I hoped for Chow, became disillusioned, would have settled for Socknaki, am impressed with Goldkind. Wish Domise was a candidate for mayor. But.... prolly have to go Chow now that rofo is out. I would have voted Tory to stop ford. Its the tone that is offensive. Just one wife beating is enough for me to write off everything about a candidate. Never mind serial murder and genocide.

Hey, I have a great respect for Nuno Bettencourt. I was just being facetious with that example. And to be clear, I said 'one' could find qualities about Hitler (the ones I mentioned) that they liked. I didn't say 'I' liked them. I was speaking in general terms, not from personal conviction.

 

[Watts]

My bad nfitz. No not aimed at you, quite the opposite. I was trying to let Watts feel his/ her own words but I effed up the quote buttons. (on hand held, clumsy thumbs). Doesn't the troll word put a firm stop to any meaningful discourse?( It looks like a she to me) She does not let up its true, but each post got a little nuttier.Nuno Betancourt is a smoking good guitarist with a couple solo albums, and plays on dozens of other peoples recordings. Most recently he was on rhianna's road tour (and maybe her album can't recall) he got some recognition with Extreme which was not as bad as thier hit would suggest, but hos best stuff is more jazzy and experimental. Must admit his looks don't hurt either. ( Terrible terribly shallow girl)

My avatar isn't me. It's the prettiest gal in the world, Mary Stuart Masterson, a la Some Kind of Wonderful (1987).

 

[nohostages]

My avatar isn't me. It's the prettiest gal in the world, Mary Stuart Masterson, a la Some Kind of Wonderful (1987).

Sheeeit I knew I knew that photo.

 

[Mandeep]

The reason why Chow has not done well and has been greatly overhype are the following:


- She does seem to be actually in charge. Meaning she appears to be a figurehead for a movement rather then the actual leader.
- She is focusing on issues that do not appeal to people outside of the downtown core. People are more concerned about Transit and roads rather then having their mayor banning guns.
- Her position on the Scarborough subway makes here deeply unpopular there. Even if we agree that the extension makes no sense, it is widely popular among the electorate.

Also, I think Ford legacy is a disgrace however I think a sizable portion of the population still buys in the fiscal conservative argument over the supposed NDP "tax and spend" Chow.

Tory will win as he has sensible conservatives and pretty much the entire moderate vote on his side.

 

[Silence&Motion]

The reason why Chow has not done well and has been greatly overhype are the following:


- She does seem to be actually in charge. Meaning she appears to be a figurehead for a movement rather then the actual leader.
- She is focusing on issues that do not appeal to people outside of the downtown core. People are more concerned about Transit and roads rather then having their mayor banning guns.
- Her position on the Scarborough subway makes here deeply unpopular there. Even if we agree that the extension makes no sense, it is widely popular among the electorate.

Also, I think Ford legacy is a disgrace however I think a sizable portion of the population still buys in the fiscal conservative argument over the supposed NDP "tax and spend" Chow.

Tory will win as he has sensible conservatives and pretty much the entire moderate vote on his side.

Hmmmm. First post to UT and its full of weak Tory talking points, which have already been discussed extensively earlier on in the thread.

- typical that the minority woman gets attacked for not "appearing" like a "leader". Maybe she should have spent more time on the golf course with Tory to learn how to look like a leader.
- Chow spent most of her time promoting extended bus service and childcare. Those issues only appeal in downtown to people who are mostly childless and walk to work?
- Putting aside the fact that the LRT is more popular in Scarborough when people are given all the facts, I actually prefer a candidate who takes the right position over the spineless popular position. I guess you could say that's what separates a leader from an empty suit.
- "tax and spend", "tax and spend", "tax and spend"... Just keep repeating that. It's exactly the kind of hysterics that gave us Ford.

 

[Greg Banks]

I'm walking into this one way late and a dollar short however...
J Tory contributing to R Ford's 2010 campaign...Who else would he contribute to? Smitherman? No given the animosity shown by Furious George in the Legislation to the opposition 2003/07. Joey Pants? No. The annointed Miller replacement. Rossi or Thomson. No. They were bit players. It left only R Ford a bombastic minority of one with a tendency to abrasiveness and the unique ability to say the wrong thing at the right time and R Ford was the right's concensus candidate...Four years after parsing R Ford's fourteen year career to the nth degree innumerable warts have been unconvered. Were they there prior? Yes. Did it make any difference to 47% of those who voted. No.

J Tory supporting creationism? Bullcarckles...What he advocating was 'faith based school funding'. His message was misconstrued all he offered was the same playing field that now exists with the Catholic Board which works within the Ontario curriculum however includes additional religious teaching over and above...Oh and the last poll I seen on Creation belief is 28% worldwide and at least 42% in the USA so whether there is credence to the belief or not, it is widely held...It was the those who hold the Creation belief that were J Tory's biggest denigrators to his funding policy for fear the boogieman of Islam would turn children radical....

 

[Mandeep]

Hmmmm. First post to UT and its full of weak Tory talking points, which have already been discussed extensively earlier on in the thread.

- typical that the minority woman gets attacked for not "appearing" like a "leader". Maybe she should have spent more time on the golf course with Tory to learn how to look like a leader.
- Chow spent most of her time promoting extended bus service and childcare. Those issues only appeal in downtown to people who are mostly childless and walk to work?
- Putting aside the fact that the LRT is more popular in Scarborough when people are given all the facts, I actually prefer a candidate who takes the right position over the spineless popular position. I guess you could say that's what separates a leader from an empty suit.
- "tax and spend", "tax and spend", "tax and spend"... Just keep repeating that. It's exactly the kind of hysterics that gave us Ford.

Your points are all valid but idealistic and not what the reality is on the ground.

I am arguing for what the situation is like not what it should be.

I think Chow is not a leader, she does not have the qualities for one, which is leadership and confidence.
The issues about bus service and childcare are fine but considering people want drastic change on transit, even if Tory's plan is invalid it seems far more appealing to the average person.

People see the subway as a given and any plan to now cancel it as a waste of time and effort. People do not care what is built, they just want something built. So in our opinion Chow will cancel it, will be seen as a step forward, but to everyone else its going ten steps back.

Also, I dont like Ford however, I do think there is a medium between Ford and Miller.

 

[nfitz]

No, your views aren't evolving. They're going back and forth, ironically like John Tory's political ideas.

Isn't it natural for ones views to shift, as one learns more.

You're a racist accuser/flip-flopper.

All I've done is accuse Rob Ford of being racist, and that those who knowingly supported that racist of being racist. Do you really believe that Rob Ford isn't a racist? Do you think it's okay to support racists? If you do - shame on you. But I don't think you do - so what's the big deal?

And don't bring useless terms like "flip-flopper" in here. What a bizarre concept. All it means is one has enough of a brain to consider and reconsider an issue, based on more information. Surely any human without the capacity to do this, lives in a very black-and-white world - and is that a good thing?

 

[adma]

Your points are all valid but idealistic and not what the reality is on the ground.

I am arguing for what the situation is like not what it should be.

I think Chow is not a leader, she does not have the qualities for one, which is leadership and confidence.
The issues about bus service and childcare are fine but considering people want drastic change on transit, even if Tory's plan is invalid it seems far more appealing to the average person.

People see the subway as a given and any plan to now cancel it as a waste of time and effort. People do not care what is built, they just want something built. So in our opinion Chow will cancel it, will be seen as a step forward, but to everyone else its going ten steps back.

Also, I dont like Ford however, I do think there is a medium between Ford and Miller.

I wish *ahem* people wouldn't keep using the word "people" in this code-languaged silent-majority manner--of course, the Fords are very prone to that: "people" don't like streetcars, "people" want subways, etc...

 

[salsa]

J Tory contributing to R Ford's 2010 campaign...Who else would he contribute to? Smitherman? No given the animosity shown by Furious George in the Legislation to the opposition 2003/07. Joey Pants? No. The annointed Miller replacement. Rossi or Thomson. No. They were bit players. It left only R Ford...

If the choices were that bad, then Tory should have contributed to no one. However any one of these people would have been a better mayor then Ford. But according to Tory's judgement, Ford was the best choice.

 

[Greg Banks]

People see the subway as a given and any plan to now cancel it as a waste of time and effort. People do not care what is built, they just want something built. So in our opinion Chow will cancel it, will be seen as a step forward, but to everyone else its going ten steps back.

Given the October 2013 vote was 24-20 and up to 5 of the 24 are not returning while 2 of the 20 are in the same boat your suggestion of fait accompli for the extension is premature...all it takes is Chow to be elected plus if elected JP Boutros, A Mazer, A Bravo, N Christensen, G Cressy (or most any other candidate from Ward 20) to change the outcome