smallspy
Senior Member
If I had lent it out, it was to a mutual friend of ours for scanning. I'm seeing him later this week, I'll check with him that he does in fact have it.
Dan
| NEWS | DATABASE | MAP | FORUM |  |  | SERVICES | UTPro | LOG IN | CITIES |
|
|
|
- Thread starter dunkalunk
- Start date
Dan
lenaitch
Senior Member
So you scold for responding to an off-topic discussion, then carry on the discussion. Cool.
nfitz
Superstar
I replied in the Kipling Terminal thread, if there is more to say.
Metroscapes
Active Member
Allandale25
Senior Member
urbancog
Active Member
That's what I thought when this was announced but now I'm thinking that this is just a bypass that takes CPKC traffic off the Milton Line from Lisgar GO eastwards and doesn't include the Liberal Party's original bypass proposal to take CN traffic off the Halton Sub. This saves face for DoFo given that cancelling the CN bypass was one of the first things he did when he got elected in 2018.
His alternative plan still has not delivered all-day, 2-way service on the Kitchener Line beyond Mount Pleasant GO - as was initially promised by a Liberal govt. back in 2009. To quote the Initial Business Case used to justify it's cancellation, "This [no bypass] option could allow for the implementation of improved service on the Kitchener corridor at a lower cost and shorter timescale compared to the previously approved freight bypass option."
nfitz
Superstar
The plan is to divert the CN line, not the CP line. Diverting the CP line in Peel doesn't help CP at all; most of the diversion would have to be in York.
Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Yes that's how I read GO 2.0's Ford direction letter to Metrolinx and then the eco campaign announcement and map.
The freight bypass would benefit BOTH the Milton Line and Midtown Line by removing CPKC and putting it on the new freight bypass in Peel/Halton, and adding track to the existing CN York Sub (with I assume rail interchanges for the MacTier Sub and the yard in Agincourt). It would ALSO benefit the Kitchener Line and the pinch point between Bramalea and Georgetown. The Ford gov declined to pursue after being elected the freight bypass option that only involved CN and only benefited the Kitchener Line.
Before this, via expropriation for the rail-over-rail grade separation near the Credit River and efforts for a third track in downtown Brampton, it appeared that the government was following the option in the 2021 PDBC for adding track capacity to enable seven-day, all-day, two-way GO train service between Kitchener and Union Station. Guess we'll have to see what happens after the election. There are a lot of spending priorities including the 401 tunnel they've laid out...
The freight bypass would benefit BOTH the Milton Line and Midtown Line by removing CPKC and putting it on the new freight bypass in Peel/Halton, and adding track to the existing CN York Sub (with I assume rail interchanges for the MacTier Sub and the yard in Agincourt). It would ALSO benefit the Kitchener Line and the pinch point between Bramalea and Georgetown. The Ford gov declined to pursue after being elected the freight bypass option that only involved CN and only benefited the Kitchener Line.
Before this, via expropriation for the rail-over-rail grade separation near the Credit River and efforts for a third track in downtown Brampton, it appeared that the government was following the option in the 2021 PDBC for adding track capacity to enable seven-day, all-day, two-way GO train service between Kitchener and Union Station. Guess we'll have to see what happens after the election. There are a lot of spending priorities including the 401 tunnel they've laid out...
bpbpbpbp
New Member
The proposed plans are great and grand (and unrealistic) from the Ford Government, and given the maps, and the letter to MX (which calls for major improvements on Milton And Kitchener), I would expect that the Ford government is proposing a bypass of both the CPKC Galt sub near Milton around the 407 ROW, potentially using the York Sub corridor or rails? to connect to MacTier and Agincourt. I also believe that they would propose the reroute of the CN Halton sub from Milton to Halwest, which would give the Kitchener Line the improvements that were called upon in the letter.
How they intend on doing this, I can’t say. Idk if they are propsing that CN’s ROW is shared (never going to happen) or something else. I don’t think CP or CN would accept any diversion that isn’t strictly seperated for their own railways and double tracked. CP will definitely not want to give up a perfectly good ROW and be forced to share CN’s ROW.
How they intend on doing this, I can’t say. Idk if they are propsing that CN’s ROW is shared (never going to happen) or something else. I don’t think CP or CN would accept any diversion that isn’t strictly seperated for their own railways and double tracked. CP will definitely not want to give up a perfectly good ROW and be forced to share CN’s ROW.
Allandale25
Senior Member
It's one bypass that would serve both CPKC and CN.
The Missing Link: Shaping the Future of the GTHA Rail Network | UrbanToronto
One of the most effective transit upgrades for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area could come not from building a new transit line, but from building a new freight line: we look at 'The Missing Link'.
urbantoronto.ca
My annotations:
Purple: new track for bypass for CPKC and CN.
Dotted purple: options for CPKC to join Galt Sub
Purple circle: interchange tracks for CPCK
Dotted red: CPKC joins the York Sub
Dotted green: more space improved and new GO lines
Dotted black: redundant CN track
Would enjoy seeing the @Willybru21 version
Attachments
Last edited:
Bojaxs
Senior Member
In order to see this happen, CN would have to be okay with allowing CPKC trains to pass infront of their Intermodal yard in Brampton and their MAC yard in Vauaghan.It's one bypass that would serve both CPKC and CN.
The Missing Link: Shaping the Future of the GTHA Rail Network | UrbanToronto
One of the most effective transit upgrades for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area could come not from building a new transit line, but from building a new freight line: we look at 'The Missing Link'.urbantoronto.ca
My annotations:
Purple: new track for bypass for CPKC and CN.
Dotted purple: options for CPKC to join Galt Sub
Purple circle: interchange tracks for CPCK
Dotted red: CPKC joins the York Sub
Dotted green: more space improved and new GO lines
Dotted black: redundant CN track
Would enjoy seeing the @Willybru21 version
View attachment 633034
CP trains would have to be entirely segregated from CN trains. They wouldn't be allowed to share the same tracks. It would negatively impact CN's Intermodal operations.
CN regularly moves trains between Brampton and Malport.
This is why I propose the 413 route for CPKC.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Able to map that?
nfitz
Superstar
NoIt's one bypass that would serve both CPKC and CN.
The Missing Link: Shaping the Future of the GTHA Rail Network | UrbanToronto
One of the most effective transit upgrades for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area could come not from building a new transit line, but from building a new freight line: we look at 'The Missing Link'.urbantoronto.ca
My annotations:
Purple: new track for bypass for CPKC and CN.
Dotted purple: options for CPKC to join Galt Sub
Purple circle: interchange tracks for CPCK
Dotted red: CPKC joins the York Sub
Dotted green: more space improved and new GO lines
Dotted black: redundant CN track
Would enjoy seeing the @Willybru21 version
View attachment 633034
Willybru21
Senior Member
Haha I’d love to but I know nothing about freight operations, my knowledge about rail starts and ends with GO!Would enjoy seeing the @Willybru21 version
After finishing all the parties GO-related election commitments I’m probably going to take a few-weeks break from the maps too, made one every day this month… eager to continue with my Union Station mapping project though!
Last edited:
Bojaxs
Senior Member
The 413 freight bypass?
I posted it on page 88
407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link
The other biggie is that the bypass gets us to a place where something short of federal intervention could put electrification of Milton and beyond Bramalea on the table. Getting CN freight off the Kitchener line does nothing to help Milton. But technically speaking if CP trains were allowed to...
urbantoronto.ca
Basically;
- "The Missing Link" for CN in order to open up the Kitchener line
- 413 bypass for CPKC in order to open up the Milton line.
Here's the issue with allowing both CN and CPKC to share the missing link. CN will be asked to allow CPKC trains to run right through the middle of their intermodal operation.
The yellow line represents "The Missing Link". CPKC trains will run right in between CN's Brampton Yard and Malport Yard.
Overlooking the Malport Yard from the Airport Rd. bridge going over the CN mainline.
Last edited:
