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The dimensions of the Seaway were built to match those of the Welland Canal.
That is in no way related to the 407 Missing link. I'd suggest starting a Great Lakes shipping thread.
That said, the Welland Canal locks are themselves a bit of an economization as I understand it. They were built to be half the width of the rest of the canal. And there's no reason I think beyond cost why the St Lawrence locks couldn't have been built bigger than the Welland locks, even if just for Lake Ontario traffic. I'm not saying it would have been worth the cost, but they could have done it.
 
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Is there any more detailed history of the planning and construction of the York & Halton Subs and MacMillan Yard, along with the abandonment of CN's downtown operations and re-envisioning of that land as Metro Centre? Unfortunately Stevens' 1973 history only touches briefly on it (a single paragraph) in the penultimate chapter and his earlier two-volume 1962 set doesn't have anything, despite that construction being contemporaneous with the writing / publishing of the books.

@smallspy / @ShonTron same question to you guys?
You will probably want to take a look at the 1959 MTARTS report, which explained some of the reasoning behind the building of CN"s then-planned Toronto bypass, and directly led to the formation of GO Transit.

I can't seem to find it online, but I do own a copy of it. I'd be happy to lend it to you.

Dan
 
You will probably want to take a look at the 1959 MTARTS report, which explained some of the reasoning behind the building of CN"s then-planned Toronto bypass, and directly led to the formation of GO Transit.

I can't seem to find it online, but I do own a copy of it. I'd be happy to lend it to you.

Dan

Have seen it referenced but never found it.... don't suppose it is scannable ?

- Paul
 
Re "CN had two alternative bypass routes planned and put forward for public commentary."

I don't think I've ever seen a map of the alternatives to the York Sub. Do you have a copy? cc @Willybru21

I don't have a map, but the press reports all describe the alternative proposed by opponents was roughly parallel, but a mile and a half north of Highway 7 instead of just south of it.

- Paul

1736868846945.png

1736869074327.png
 
@crs1026 observation had me taking a quick glance at the map, and you instantly realize why the alternate location would be ~ 2.5 to 3km north of 7, if it weren't where it is..............

One giant clue...........that would land it on the north side of MacMillan Yard. (at that point its actually closer to 3.6km, and you can see hints of a probable ROW running parallel to but south of 16th.)
 
@crs1026 observation had me taking a quick glance at the map, and you instantly realize why the alternate location would be ~ 2.5 to 3km north of 7, if it weren't where it is..............

One giant clue...........that would land it on the north side of MacMillan Yard. (at that point its actually closer to 3.6km, and you can see hints of a probable ROW running parallel to but south of 16th.)

During the public commentary phase, there were many suggestions that the yard itself should be situated further west. I'm sure CN was not eager to redirect a land amalgamation that was probably already under way.... and, there was no pleasing everybody.

- Paul
 
@crs1026 observation had me taking a quick glance at the map, and you instantly realize why the alternate location would be ~ 2.5 to 3km north of 7, if it weren't where it is..............

One giant clue...........that would land it on the north side of MacMillan Yard. (at that point its actually closer to 3.6km, and you can see hints of a probable ROW running parallel to but south of 16th.)

I think I see what you're talking about:

1736870620003.png
 
Just build a cloverdale, sherwaY, Dixie, square one subway extension if it’s impossible to fix this freight mess.
TBH I always felt Cloverdale was more likely to get a subway than Sherway because of all the miway busses passing the mall, now that the huge terminal was built at Kipling I wonder what are the odds of any subway extension
 
The dimensions of the Seaway were built to match those of the Welland Canal.
The Fourth Welland started construction in 1913, the Seaway in 1954. There were huge changes to ships in the 40 ensuing years that just weren't taken into account because of construction cost. At that point, the Ideal X was still two years away and the full shift to containerization wasn't even on the horizon.
That is in no way related to the 407 Missing link. I'd suggest starting a Great Lakes shipping thread.
That said, the Welland Canal locks are themselves a bit of an economization as I understand it. They were built to be half the width of the rest of the canal. And there's no reason I think beyond cost why the St Lawrence locks couldn't have been built bigger than the Welland locks, even if just for Lake Ontario traffic. I'm not saying it would have been worth the cost, but they could have done it.
That's fair. There probably already is one.
 
TBH I always felt Cloverdale was more likely to get a subway than Sherway because of all the miway busses passing the mall, now that the huge terminal was built at Kipling I wonder what are the odds of any subway extension
That terminal was a mistake the day it was designed and confirmed the day it opened. We shouldn’t be committed to crap just because we recently paid for it.
 
You will probably want to take a look at the 1959 MTARTS report, which explained some of the reasoning behind the building of CN"s then-planned Toronto bypass, and directly led to the formation of GO Transit.

I can't seem to find it online, but I do own a copy of it. I'd be happy to lend it to you.

Dan

Would love to see it scanned and happy to donate to the efforts cc @crs1026 @Willybru21
 
Have seen it referenced but never found it.... don't suppose it is scannable ?

- Paul
I did some digging on this. Apparently, the University of Toronto has a copy of the 1959 MTPB draft report in its library too. You could probably ask to see it if it isn't simply on a shelf somewhere. There is also a bookseller specializing in making copies of rare books who claims to be able to mail you a physical copy for $US40. I couldn't find a digital copy anywhere.

There is also apparently a digital copy here of the 1965 MTPB draft, which is different than the 1959 draft I think. Also, the Toronto public library has copies of a draft plan it says are from 1972 on shelf.

Also perhaps of interest, the city of Toronto apparently has the internal correspondence of the MTPB board members from that time period on file in its archives, on various unspecified subjects.
 
What is bad about it? I've only used a miway bus there once?
The walk between the Mississauga bus to the subway is insane. It feels like it was built in 1950 when no one gave a damn about the elderly or people with accessibility needs. On top of the insane walk of course there is no moving sidewalks because we know how reliable those were at spading station. You would think that if people thought spading station was such a long transfer that they felt the need to install a moving sidewalk that 50 years later they wouldn’t build a transfer terminal with twice the distance walk. Even if you are perfectly healthy that transfer adds five minutes to your commute. I thought we were trying to encourage transit use.this design is just absolute trash.
 

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