[nfitz]

Maybe they recall how as a councilor Chow had one of the higher budgets

I wasn't paying attention. She was Ward 20 though. My gosh, look at the stuff that's happened in that ward. Surely she'd have been spending a lot more on community meetings than many councillors. Was there any indication of waste?

...or how she wanted to borrow to the limit and default on loans.

The limit is very low BTW ... we're close to it now. It's legislated by the province to be much lower than what other big cities currently has their debt level. What's this about defaulting - do you have a link?

Or how she opposed cutting perks for Councilors, and cuts to Councilors salary. Maybe it's how she billed the taxpayers an an MP for a promotional mailer just before she resigned as MP and ran for Mayor, or spending $86,000 on photocopies.

And you compare this to Rob Ford beating his wife and smoking crack. Or John Tory's beliefs about women and endorsing Rob Ford? Perks for councillors? What, the Limos? We're talking a sandwich during an all-day&night meeting - something any other workplace happily pays for, because it's more efficient.

 

[kEiThZ]

And yet all the centrists are gathering around Tory. How could it be?

Yes. How could this be? The leftists on here either don't get how far they are to the left (from the mainstream) or seem to think the public has been duped by Tory. It couldn't possibly be that Tory is just plain right of centre and the public is fine with that?

Chow, on the other hand, does have leftist baggage. Just look at her history with OCAP. She was forced to resign from the Police Services Board because of her interference at an OCAP protest that turned violent. She voted against action to remove squatters off the Cherry St. lands. She voted against banning raves despite deaths from Ecstacy users at raves. 4th highest spending MP in FY2012/2013, with her riding a few hours away from Ottawa. Not to mention her history with retaining public housing while having a combined income of over $120k. She's a rather firm leftist. As such it's rather difficult to take her seriously now as she appeals to centrists. She should have started moderating a decade ago if she wanted to pass for a centrist.

And while statements like this might go down well on UT, they won't really sell well with the general public:

"If I had $26 million, I'd build one community centre in a high-risk neighbourhood first than fix any more roads." (During 2004 budget deliberations....)

Those attack ads on John Tory by her friends. She really should be careful. A few ads reflecting on some of her actions in the 90s and 80s would drop her to under 20%. I can just imagine a spot highlighting the fact that she voted herself (with other trustees) an 86% pay hike in 1988, as a school trustee.

Tory has his baggage. Mostly they are boneheaded, foot-in-mouth comments or missteps (like supporting Ford). But they pale in comparison to the history of Chow and her longstanding belief in leftist policies that the majority of the public would not support today.

And if anyone needs any proof of her leftist bonafides, please refer to her platform where she proposes taxing home sakes above $2 million (basically every slightly upper middle class homeowner in Toronto) to fund programs (such as school lunch programs) that really should be administered by the province.

 

[JGHali]

Ah yes, the usual tiresome "public housing" canard. What part of housing co-op do you not get? At Jarvis and Shuter no less!

As for the notion that the "slightly upper middle class" are routinely buying $2m homes, well, I suppose that merely means that said group comprises at most 0.5% of income earners.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Ah yes, the usual tiresome "public housing" canard. What part of housing co-op do you not get? At Jarvis and Shuter no less!

Um, there was a lot more in that post, and yet you quickly seize onto the easiest one to refute. What of the rest? Is your omission meant as your agreement?

At the end of the day, who cares what Chow says, or has done. She going to get smoked, just like the ON and Fed NDP is getting smoked in the City of Toronto. Her way of thinking re. bigger govt, more socially activist and interferring govt, equal opportunities for all via greater transfers of wealth, is no longer connecting with the voters. For anyone with socialist leanings, there's a lot of merit actually in much of the NDP ideals of no man/woman/child left behind and the idea of equality of result not just of opportunity. I've certainly voted NDP previously. But this mindset is dead in Toronto proper, or at leaxt not strong enough for Dippers to win at city hall or Queens Park.

 

[nfitz]

....Not to mention her history with retaining public housing while having a combined income of over $120k.

Good grief, this was debunked years ago.

If that's the calibre of stuff your dredging up, then presumably the rest of your points are just as faulty!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I can see her in 4th if Ari Goldkind continues his momentum

That's beyond ridiculous. Your anti-Chow bias just got turned up to 11.

It looks like she'll poll a distant second. Mr. Goldkind won't even poll Stintz/Soks numbers, and I'll be very surprised if Ford's percentage vote is anywhere close to his polling. It's one thing to giggle and give a middle finger answer to a telephone poll, and another to actually go out and bother to vote. Last time around, Ford Nation had a (misplaced, IMHO) righteous anger and a hero who looked like he could get elected. This time around they have a poorer candidate and ZERO help from centrists who HATE the candidate.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Far more insulting than the incredibly sexist and misogynistic suggestion that women should play golf to get ahead, is his defence of the wage gap between men and women.

John Tory seems completely oblivious to and downplays both white privilege and male privilege. This extreme-right wing position is not generally the position of centrists.

I know I shouldn't, but: 'white privilege' and 'male privilege' are leftist dog whistles as much as any of the many, many things the Fords say are right wing dog whistles. Tory giving a reasonable answer to a barbed question might drive people who hate him nuts, but it sure isn't going to move the needle much for most voters.

As for the golf thing: I don't play golf. The 'expats' here in the office form a golfing foursome, including the Managing Director. I often find out office gossip or upcoming events/plans from the guy who sits next to me on Monday, because he was talking about it with the MD on Saturday.

It was a stupid thing for Tory to say. It's not necessarily wrong.

Finally: Tory is not an extreme right-winger. The Front National in France is extreme right wing. UKIP is extreme right wing. Nobody in Toronto politics is extreme right wing.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes. How could this be? The leftists on here either don't get how far they are to the left (from the mainstream) or seem to think the public has been duped by Tory. It couldn't possibly be that Tory is just plain right of centre and the public is fine with that?

Nice try with the labelling - let's demolish this "leftist" nonsense a bit.

Chow, on the other hand, does have leftist baggage. Just look at her history with OCAP. She was forced to resign from the Police Services Board because of her interference at an OCAP protest that turned violent. She voted against action to remove squatters off the Cherry St. lands. She voted against banning raves despite deaths from Ecstacy users at raves. 4th highest spending MP in FY2012/2013, with her riding a few hours away from Ottawa. Not to mention her history with retaining public housing while having a combined income of over $120k. She's a rather firm leftist. As such it's rather difficult to take her seriously now as she appeals to centrists. She should have started moderating a decade ago if she wanted to pass for a centrist.

I thought that public housing argument has been dealt with for years. And no offense but just how many would actually remember her and OCAP? Or for crying out loud, supporting raves (and it's a bit disingenious to link that to deaths from E, as if drug use would suddenly cease by fiat) - need I remind you how values have changed over recreational drug use over the past decade?

And while statements like this might go down well on UT, they won't really sell well with the general public:
"If I had $26 million, I'd build one community centre in a high-risk neighbourhood first than fix any more roads." (During 2004 budget deliberations....)
Those attack ads on John Tory by her friends. She really should be careful. A few ads reflecting on some of her actions in the 90s and 80s would drop her to under 20%. I can just imagine a spot highlighting the fact that she voted herself (with other trustees) an 86% pay hike in 1988, as a school trustee.
Tory has his baggage. Mostly they are boneheaded, foot-in-mouth comments or missteps (like supporting Ford). But they pale in comparison to the history of Chow and her longstanding belief in leftist policies that the majority of the public would not support today.

Yes, but of course, let's not overlook the umpteen millions it would cost to subsidize faith-based schools for zilch benefit to the average Joe instead. And that was in 2007. Those who live in glass houses...

And if anyone needs any proof of her leftist bonafides, please refer to her platform where she proposes taxing home sakes above $2 million (basically every slightly upper middle class homeowner in Toronto) to fund programs (such as school lunch programs) that really should be administered by the province.

If all a "leftist" can manage is proposing an increase in the LTT for home sales above $2M (let's put aside just how removed from reality that equates to "every slightly upper middle class homeowner in TO") to pay for measy happy meals for the kids, I think he/she would be laughed out of town for the lack of streetcred. Somehow I think this "leftist" labelling is the flipside of the holy trinity of sexist/racist/homophobia that is being trotted around to denounce anyone whom they don't happen to agree with, as if we're dealing with Che or something. Call to arms, baby.

AoD

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Remember that the LTT applies on property sold, not just single family dwellings. Would this apply to vacant land, multi-unit residential, commercial properties? Given Chow's anti-business, anti-wealthy political orientation I can say that it is a safe bet. Her other big platforms all involve the creation or expansion of government programs and regulations. Even though her platform has been intentionally toned down to maximize her political appeal, she is still a big government, nanny-state capital S Socialist.

IMHO this is one of the big reasons that she's been less popular than expected with visible minorities - many of them came to Canada to work hard and build better lives for their families. Her policies appeal more to the latte-sipping downtown (white) liberals than those who would supposedly benefit.

I read in an interview that she didn't think that food trucks were over-regulated. In reality, the city's heavy-handed approach to food trucks is a perfect example of how bureaucracy and excessive regulation can stifle new business opportunities and job creation.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

IMHO this is one of the big reasons that she's been less popular than expected with visible minorities - many of them came to Canada to work hard and build better lives for their families. Her policies appeal more to the latte-sipping downtown (white) liberals than those who would supposedly benefit.

The funny thing of course is that the last generation of immigrants generally fared far, far better in terms of outcomes under the so called "big government" days in the 60s-80s.

AoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

Maybe they recall how as a councilor Chow had one of the higher budgets, or how she wanted to borrow to the limit and default on loans. Or how she opposed cutting perks for Councilors, and cuts to Councilors salary. Maybe it's how she billed the taxpayers an an MP for a promotional mailer just before she resigned as MP and ran for Mayor, or spending $86,000 on photocopies.

Could be any number of things that would give people the perception that she's loose with the public purse.

A: None of those things you listed are necessarily "bad" things.

B: The 100's of $millions wasted by Ford makes that argument a joke.

The bottom line is that Toronto is the kind of city that REQUIRES a left-of-centre agenda & administration. All right-of-centre politics ever did for Toronto was leave us with giant infrastructure & service inadequacies that made life miserable and cost us more in the long run.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'd be careful with the left/right labelling regarding the infrastructure deficit - there is enough blame to go around that no one came out as saints.

AoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

Given Chow's anti-business, anti-wealthy political orientation

This is why we are perfectly justified in not taking anything you say seriously.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I'd be careful with the left/right labelling regarding the infrastructure deficit - there is enough blame to go around that no one came out as saints.

AoD

I don't recall assigning any saintly praise, but to imply it is all a wash is just plain silly.

 

[the lemur]

Remember that the LTT applies on property sold, not just single family dwellings. Would this apply to vacant land, multi-unit residential, commercial properties? Given Chow's anti-business, anti-wealthy political orientation I can say that it is a safe bet. Her other big platforms all involve the creation or expansion of government programs and regulations

It applies to all properties, including land and buildings to be constructed, yes. It's more correct to say it applies to property purchased, since it is paid by the buyer and not, as Doug Ford repeatedly claims, by the seller. It is also a graduated tax, in that it applies at different rates to portions of the sale price/consideration value: 0.5% on the first $55K, 1% on the portion between 55K and 400K and 2% on the portion above 400K. It's not anti-business or anti-wealth, it's just a much-needed source of revenue for the city (it was previously only the province that got a cut of sale proceeds) and it is not opposed by the other candidates in principle. It's just the rates that are at issue.